Gun Background Checks Supported By More Than 90 Percent

USAF385

US Veteran
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
3,917
Reaction score
2,188
Location
NEPA Endless Mountains
Considering some of the talk I've heard here on the forum, I can believe this poll. I can understand how someone would think this was a good idea. On the surface it sounds good: "background checks on all gun sales! It'll stop criminals from getting guns!". But when you consider that it truly won't stop criminals and only harms law abiding citizens then what's the point? Other than, oh I don't know, starting a gun registry.

Gun Background Checks Supported By More Than 90 Percent: Poll

Side note: Recently on the news there was a story on about people who shouldn't be able to buy guns buying guns. And these were people who actually bought the guns from an FFL. The problem was that on the government side they never put their violent/mental information in their background so the background check came through clean. In the one example the criminal was caught having guns by the police chief who happened to see his Facebook page with a post of guns. Guns he could not legally own.
 
Register to hide this ad
In NJ background checks are the only way. How does it harm law abiding citizen? If you have a clean record it's absolutely no problem, you fill out a form and wait but if you have something to hide it IS a problem.
 
In NJ background checks are the only way. How does it harm law abiding citizen? If you have a clean record it's absolutely no problem, you fill out a form and wait but if you have something to hide it IS a problem.


How does it hurt law abiding citizens? Well, universal background checks will create a defacto gun registration. In a few years when the SCOTUS has a few new judges, if there is another Sandy Hook event, the Govt will come after our guns, and likely get them. Law abiding citizens don't need the Govt having a list of what guns we own. Do you want your guns confiscated? I don't.
 
How does it hurt law abiding citizens? Well, universal background checks will create a defacto gun registration.

That is a fact. A few nights back on the news, they ran a story about the people who trace guns used in crimes. How did they do this? By using information provided by the manufacturers as well as documentation from FFLs. This is all done without a "gun registry"... But yeah there's a gun registry. Making it so all gun transfers and sales must be done through an FFL with a background check will just force law abiding citizens to register their guns with the non-registry registry.
 
You and your dad get with your uncle and cousins on the Saturday before opening day to help each other sight in your rifles before heading to the family's remote deer camp for a week. Upon arrival at camp, Cousin accidentally drops his rifle and knocks his scope out of alignment. At the range, he also help sight in your extra deer rifle. It's the same caliber as his and cousin would like to use for the remainder of deer camp rather than spooking the forest with unnecessary rifle cracks to re-sight his dropped Remington. But wait! That would technically be a transfer. No, your cousin and long-time deer camp compatriot cannot keep your rifle for the week unless he undergoes a gov't approved bg check: kinda hard to do from the sticks at deer camp and an utterly useless waste of time anyway.

Your daughter calls from college. It's the start of her junior year. She has selected her major and is now taking the "hard" courses with specialty text books. These cost nearly twice as much as the core course books she had to buy as a freshman and sophomore. Being the good Dad, you decide to dust off one of the collectibles in the back of the safe to sell for book money to help your daughter. Unfortunately, you live in a rural area. There are lots of hunting and shooting folks around but only one LGS about 40 miles away. Daughter needs the money in a hurry as classes start at the first of the week. You'd like to sell the rifle at fair market value, and have a good idea of a few buyers, but there is little time to coordinate meeting the working stiff interested in your rifle at the far away gun shop to do a transfer. You have known the potential buyer for years and know he isn't a prohibited person, but just do not have time to wait for him to be able to meet you next Thurs at the gun shop. Daughter needs book money by Monday. Instead of selling the rifle for fair market value to a trap shooting buddy down the road, your only option is to sell it to the LGS dealer at trade value. It isn't quite enough to cover daughter's book charges, but hey... more student or credit card debt in exchange for gov't mandated "feel good" measure that does nothing to reduce crime of violence is acceptable to the majority of Americans - as if public opinion should trump Constitutional rights.

It is already illegal to sell a firearm to anyone who is known to be a prohibited person.

It is already illegal for any prohibited person to acquire (or attempt to acquire) a firearm.

Enforcement of existing laws is all that it needed.

Yet the current admin says there is no time or resources to prosecute those felons and prohibited persons who lie on a 4473 and attempt to buy a gun. Yet forcing honest Americans to pay for bg checks to let their law-abiding cousin borrow a rifle for deer camp or to sell a collectible to a range buddy will somehow reduce crime and violence - even though the current admin has stated there is no time to enforce the current laws related to attempts to lie thru the bg process.

Any law or regulation that impacts a fundamental right must be narrowly tailored, related to a compelling public interest, and be effective in meeting the stated goal. Reducing crime and violence is a compelling public interest, but registration schemes via mandated bg checks on compliant, lawful, private transfers are not effective in reducing violent crime. Nor is banning popular modern sporting rifles and their common accessories effective in reducing crime or violence. These knee-jerk, feel-good proposals do not withstand scrutiny and should not be enacted. If the law/proposal does not work to reduce crime and violence (the stated goal of gun control) it should not be adopted. Any law on the books that is not effective should be tossed out.

There are MANY public policies that could be enacted to reduce crime and violence by addressing on the source of criminal and violent behaviors- without the misplaced focus on the inanimate objects a criminal may illegally use in his unlawful exploits.
 
Last edited:
I see no problems with a background checks as long as their is no registration. How to enforce it? Really cannot enforce it if their is no registration. So I'm all for it as long as it does not require any form of registration or any other steps.

James
 
Ok at gun shows but not private sales. It would be a major pita for two individuals
 
there's another issue that leans towards the "mental health" side that i haven't heard anyone address...who determines what a "mental health condition" that should restrict firearm ownership is? For example, my mother and father live on a farm out in the middle of nowhere...my dad is a veteran, hunter, and collector...my mom is a nurse, but she likes to target-shoot with my dad now and then...few years back, my mom had cancer, and with a bleak outlook added to the normal stresses of work, as well as a small farm that was barely breaking even, she decided to get some counseling for stress(cancer is gone now, thank God)...under new legal guidelines, would that be determined as a mental illness, in turn requiring my father to no longer be able to purchase/own firearms? who makes these decisions, the new panels that are deciding everything with the Affordable Healthcare Act?
 
Last edited:
Here in NY we all ready have to jump through bureaucratic hoops and as all of you know its about to get worst. Hopefully that will change.
I picked up a handgun lately and because I wasn't sure how it worked I listened to the LGS talk to the NICS check person. They never asked for the serial number of the firearm but did ask whether it was a handgun or long gun. After it was a go the NICS person gave the LGS a verification number which he wrote down on the 4473 form. So in a sense we do have a registry. They may not know the serial number of the gun but they do have a record that you bought firearm and its type.
They also know the dealer, of course, and he is responsible to retain the paperwork so there is a paper trail for that particular firearm. None of this exists when a firearm is bought privately.
My feelings are what if you get checked out initially by the Feds and get cleared as a good human being and get issued a card that allows you to purchase any firearm you want. No more checks per purchase. The Feds get notice from your local police and the psychiatric professionals if you run amiss of the law or start seeing unicorns.
What do you think?

Len
 
Last edited:
Criminal can't pass a background check?

I've never seen a NICS call done from the back of a van or trunk of a car.

Who really thinks most of these people are going out to buy guns to commit crimes with???
 
BG checks are required at gun shows. Any dealer must conduct a FBI/NCIC at the show just as he does at his storefront. There is no "gun show loophole."

BG checks at gun shows, in Mass, that is the case, unless a person is walking around with a gun over their shoulder with a for sale sign, then they just have to do the FA10 registration paperwork, no BG check (although if you have a LTC you already had one)
When I was on vacation in Florida I went to the Lakeland gun show, a large portion of the tables were put there by individuals, not dealers, who were selling guns. These were private sales with no background check since a private person cannot do a BG check. I think that is the "gun show loophole" they are talking about that a free person can sell to another free person without going through a dealer.

In many states even a state like Florida that does have concealed carry licenses you are still allowed to do FTF sales, and a private FTF sale doesn't do a BG.

I am torn both ways, I would like to be able to do a BG on a buyer so I feel more comfortable, at the same time it bothers me that in Mass all my guns are registered and can be picked up when they decide the time is ripe. Also guaranteed they will use it as a registration scheme.

In Mass our records go to the "CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORDS BOARD" you are considered a criminal for buying a gun, I guess
 
© 2012 National Rifle Association of America. Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced.

Imagine a grandfather who wants to give a family shotgun to his 12-year-old grandson having to do a background check on his grandson before giving him the shotgun.

Or a friend having to do a background check on his lifetime best buddy before lending him a hunting rifle.

Or, if your mother had a prowler at her home, having to do a background check on your own Mom before you could give her one of your guns for protection.

That's what "universal background checks" do. They turn traditional innocent conduct into a criminal offense. They target you, law-abiding gun owners.

Universal background checks are background checks on EVERY transfer, sale, purchase, trade, gift, rental, and loan of a firearm between any and all individuals.

All background checks must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer. Universal background checks have nothing to do with gun shows – they are about you.

It is ALREADY a federal felony to be engaged in the business of buying and selling firearms, for livelihood and profit, without having a federal firearm dealers license.

It is ALREADY a crime for a federally licensed dealer to sell a gun without doing a background check – that's all dealers, everywhere, including at retail stores, gun shows, flea markets or anywhere else.

Further, it is ALREADY a federal felony for any private person to sell, trade, give, lend, rent or transfer a gun to a person you know or should have known is not legally allowed to own, purchase or possess a firearm.

The penalty for selling a gun to a person who is a criminal, mentally ill, mentally incompetent, alcohol abuser or drug abuser is 10-year federal felony. That's now, today, with no changes to the law.

It is even a federal felony to submit false information on a background check form for the purpose of purchasing a firearm.

Even so, according to a 2012 report to the Department of Justice, more than 72,000 people were turned down on a gun purchase in 2010 because they didn't pass the background check. Yet, only 44 of those cases were prosecuted. Why, when criminals are caught in act of lying on the form to illegally purchase a firearm are they not prosecuted?

On Thursday, January 10, 2013, in the White House meeting of President Obama's Gun Agenda Task Force, Vice President Joe Biden answered that question, telling NRA's Director of Federal Affairs, James Baker, that the Obama administration didn't have time to prosecute people for lying on the federal background check form.

In an article in The Daily Caller (1/18/2013) Biden said, "And to your point, Mr. Baker, regarding the lack of prosecutions on lying on Form 4473s, we simply don't have the time or manpower to prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that answers a question inaccurately."

If the Obama Administration currently doesn't have the time or manpower to prosecute those who lie on background check forms, then why do they want more background checks, more paperwork and more forms? It's backdoor gun registration.

Universal background check system legislation that we have previously seen, allows the government to keep a computerized government registry of gun owners.

In addition to the absurdity of having to do background checks on people you know are not criminals, would you like to pay up to $100 or more just to give your grandson a shotgun or lend a hunting rifle to your best friend or give your Mom a gun for protection?

Transfer fees alone could run from $50 up. Firearms dealers, like other businesses, charge as much as they can get away with. Background check fees for a federally mandated program can be any amount they decide.

The Obama administration's gun ban agenda and universal background check system are unconstitutional regulatory schemes to gut the Second Amendment. These proposals which mandate the government collection of data on lawful gun buyers and sellers amount to universal gun registration and gun owner licensing.

This agenda focuses on peaceable citizens, not violent criminals who obtain guns on the black-market to carry out unspeakable crimes already prohibited under federal and state laws. Instead of stopping crime and eliminating criminal conduct, they are creating more criminals – they are targeting you.

That's why NRA Members and the nation's 100 million firearms owners will stand in solidarity and fight against these misguided and diabolical proposals that have nothing whatsoever to do with curbing criminal violence but everything to do with stripping us of our guaranteed civil rights and our freedom.

© 2012 National Rifle Association of America. Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced.
 
Just what is the goal of a background check anyway? Sure, they'll check for convicted felons, folks with warrants, terrorists, etc. but there has been a lot of talk about "Mental" or "Emotional" concerns. What criteria is going to be used to deny a U.S. citizen the right to keep & bear arms? Will the check list include:
Paranoia
Schzophrenia
Depression
PTSD (that'll eliminate most of our returning vets)
Autism
PMS (that takes care of the ladies)
Eating disorders
Anxiety Disorder
Manic / Depression disorder
Any kind of phobia
Bi-Polar Disorder
Alzheimers
obsessive / compulsive disorder
Sleep Apnia
Gas
Heebie Jeebies
Willies
Did I leave anyone out?
 
Simple,
NO... NO... NO... NO... NO...

We already have defacto gun registration with the 4473 process... All the BATF has to do to run down a firearm, by make, model and serial#, is contact MFR... who then gives them info on what wholesaler shipped to... wholesaler then gives them dealer purchase information... then a call to dealer, and BATF swoops in to pull 4473 for all pertinent identifiers and questions to be answered...

We already have other defacto gun registries in other states now... IE, MI...where I moved back to after being gone 24 years... ALL...of my pistols...had to be registered with MSP... and you have to have a Pistol Purchase Permit buy or transfer UNLESS you have a legal CPL or CCW license...then a form still has to be completed and turned in... they know what you have at the county and state level... Therefor, I will NOT bring all of my collection back...it will remain locked up in Ga. as it it NONE of their business...as to what I have collected and own.!!!!

What part of "Shall NOT Be Infringed" do others not understand... have the last 50-60 years of liberalism...and brainwashing by the govt. and media and giving up your gun rights in the liberal NE states and West coast states...made you buy in to the premise... that if we GIVE IN... a little now... they will leave us alone...

Hows that working for you now,
1968 Gun Control Act
1986 Volckmer McClure Bill, NO Further future Class 3 Machine guns mfg. to be transferred to citizens legally allowed to own such
1989 Importation Ban, Of EVIL Paramilitary Rifles, 19 types identified
1989 Roberti-Roos California Assault Weapons... definition and BAN, identifies 50 types to be banned and registered with the state
1994 Clintonista Crime Bill... those of us old enough...know how this worked for 10 years...NOT!!!! NO PART of the crime bill as far as weapons control and Standard and Higher Cap mag bans... worked.!!!! PERIOD.!!!!!!
2004 NY... keeps up the Hicap mag ban and so does many other cities and states
2009-2010 Fast and Furious SCANDAL... BATF and DOJ allow STRAW PURCHASERS... to walk guns across the border to the MEXICAN DRUG CARTELS... THIS ONE...ALONE... ought to scare the bejesus... out of EVERYONE in this country.!!!!!!
2013 Here we are back in 1994 all over again.!!!!!!!!!!

And the list goes on and on and on !!!!!!!

And I quote Samuel Adams 08/01/1776
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams

Just my humble 02 cents,

Paul
 
Last edited:
Back
Top