Gun Control, as in J-frames

[NiklasP]

Hello,

I am just getting into learning to handle J-frames and shoot accurately and swiftly with them. Been shooting medium and large frame SAs and DAs of and on for decades. What I am about to write here is most likely old news to many, even most, here. Perhaps it will help others new to J-frames.

My J-frame was a S&W M60 5" barrel with nice rosewood laminate grips (seen on many recently made Lady Smiths) that do not cover the backstrap but do have finger grooves, including a vestigal one for lilfinger. With these grips this gun was very difficult for me to shoot accurately, especially rapidy or one handed -- for the Ms. it was essentially hopeless (she has very long fingers). Neither of us have large hands, taking generally medium/large sized gloves.

Got a set of Uncle Mike's black rubber grips, those commonly on recently made S&W. These cover the backstrap and fill our hands better. Basically they are "combat grips". MUCH more control for me, especially for DA and one handed shooting. Still not suitable for Ms. These are likely the grips that will be on the gun when I CCW this gun in populated areas -- which will not happen often.

Next I got a set of Pachmyar Gripper grips. WOW, now we have the control we are accoustomed to with revolvers, even somewhat better, and gun is quite controllable for both of us. These are the grips that will be on this multipurpose gun for home defense, for woods carry, for hunting, for vehicular carry, for bullseye and defensive pistol target shooting. They are a great confidence builder.

Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

Hello,

I am just getting into learning to handle J-frames and shoot accurately and swiftly with them. Been shooting medium and large frame SAs and DAs of and on for decades. What I am about to write here is most likely old news to many, even most, here. Perhaps it will help others new to J-frames.

My J-frame was a S&W M60 5" barrel with nice rosewood laminate grips (seen on many recently made Lady Smiths) that do not cover the backstrap but do have finger grooves, including a vestigal one for lilfinger. With these grips this gun was very difficult for me to shoot accurately, especially rapidy or one handed -- for the Ms. it was essentially hopeless (she has very long fingers). Neither of us have large hands, taking generally medium/large sized gloves.

Got a set of Uncle Mike's black rubber grips, those commonly on recently made S&W. These cover the backstrap and fill our hands better. Basically they are "combat grips". MUCH more control for me, especially for DA and one handed shooting. Still not suitable for Ms. These are likely the grips that will be on the gun when I CCW this gun in populated areas -- which will not happen often.

Next I got a set of Pachmyar Gripper grips. WOW, now we have the control we are accoustomed to with revolvers, even somewhat better, and gun is quite controllable for both of us. These are the grips that will be on this multipurpose gun for home defense, for woods carry, for hunting, for vehicular carry, for bullseye and defensive pistol target shooting. They are a great confidence builder.

Niklas

 

[Gutpile Charlie]

I carry M60 and M36 J frames with Pachmeyer Compact Pro grips. The backstrap is left uncovered and these conceal very well in a right front pocket.

I can't imagine using a 5" J frame. With that length of barrel you might as well have a K or L frame?

I like my J frames as "snubbies", 1 7/8"

The beauty of the J frame is easy concealability. A longer barrel seems to defeat this.

 

[flop-shank]

A 5" 60 would hide easily IWB.

 

[NiklasP]

The Model 60 J-frame with 5" barrel is intended for many purposes, mostly where a light-weight, slender, powerful, easy to hit with, revolver is wanted. K frames and larger weigh too much and are too large and I seldom need more that 1-2 shots.

It does conceal nicely inside waist band, so long as belt passes just below cylinder, as does my other "carry" revolver (7,5 Nagant Swedish Officers Model of 1887, 4,5" barrel). This puts amount of gun below belt about same as with typical IWB holsters and J-frames with 2-3 inch barrels. With a jacket or longer vest, the gun is not noticable, so long as is pressed snuggly against back and at a suitable cant. This carry will nearly always be rural, backwoods, hunting or wilderness roaming.

I agree that the smaller grips, that do not cover backstrap, are more concealable. However, expected shooting with this gun is likely to be at greater, maybe much greater, than point blank ranges. Ability to hit small targets consistantly, or right spot on large targets, is essential. The smaller grips greatly hindered this for me, were impossible for Ms.

In addition, I have extensive hearing loss and am simply not willing to fire short-barreled revolvers, so, those guns are non-starters for me.

 

[boomstick]

I have a 49 and a 649. I just keep the stock wood grips on them. I'm not not going to be shooting any pistol matches with them, and I don't care how comfortable they are or aren't to shoot, as long as they carry well in a pocket. The rubber grips make them too big for me.

 

[flop-shank]

Niklas, have you tried that hand load? How is it working for you?

 

[NiklasP]

flop-shank,

I have not gotten out to shoot any handloads. I did get out to shoot some factory loads. I was all looking forward to some nice cold weather shooting and skiing, then the local "bug" laid me low for past 2 weeks. Soon I should be off on travel again -- one of these weeks I get back out to shoot again ....

Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

boomstick,

Of all the revolvers I have used, I think grips make the most difference with J-frames and will differ widely from one person to next. I can see that someone with small hands would love the original rosewood grips on my M60. I would sure hate to find myself having to draw and shoot quickly my M60 with original grips while being attacked.

FYI, S&W considers M60 with 5" barrel to be a "target" revolver for folks with small hands -- even claim it has a "target-quality" barrel. Shooting two-handed off rest, mine put all 5 Rem factory LRN bullets into one ragged hole at about 30-40 feet. Looking forward to seeing 25, 50 and 100 yard groups, as well as how well we can point shoot it rapid fire at 5-10 yards with Pachmayr Gripper grips (barely "minute of BG" with original grips and one handed).

Niklas

 

[lev83]

The factory stocks o n my J frame and a Tyler T grip seem to offer the best compromise between good control and concealment.

 

[NiklasP]

Googled Tyler T-grips, so now I know what they are. At least on basis of looking at pics, not handling guns, I have to ask what the functional differences are between the old-style factory grips + Tyler T-grips and the newer "combat-style" grips that extend forward of grip frame and have finger grooves, but do not cover the backstrap. Is it simply appearance?

Maybe I am still missing something important. Both of us find any J-frame grips, that leave back of grip frame uncovered, to give us very poor leverage on trigger when shooting DA, with result that it is difficult for me and essentially impossible for Ms. to control pointing/aiming while shooting DA. It is principally this additional material over the backstrap that provides the much improved DA trigger control and pointing/aiming. I also find it difficult to think that this additional 1/4 inch or so to backstrap has much of affect on concealment -- as with the Uncle Mikes rubber grips that extend maybe 1/2 inch below the grip frame. I would agree that Pachmayr Gripper grips do reduce concealability in warmer weather, but, I am not considering them for that purpose.

Thanks,
Niklas

 

[wjh2657]

I have 4 J-Frames (317,642,640 and 60) and I have put Pachmayr Compacs on all of them. I have small hands and the Compacs give me a perfect grip and finger control. They also absorb the recoil well (I use only standard pressure ammo in my snubbies.) I have no problem concealing the grips in either pocket carry or OWB. I carry one of them daily (with TN HCP) so I have carried them in all kinds of clothing. I have found that each individual has to find their own combination that fits their hands and style of shooting (I practice daily with 317 and weekly with .38s, all at 7 yards and under.) I own several larger revolvers and pistols, but I have found the J-frame to be the perfect size for my hands and for concealability in multi-season clothing. I can blow the 9 and 10 ring out of a 25 yard target at 7 yards with any of them. That is all the accuracy I need for my SD.

 

[Bobwtn]

I fully agree the 5 shot J's are great. I carry one often and pocket is the usual spot. Light, 38 +p will do damage, and easy to conseal (cept in a speedo at the beach)

 

[dlstewart01]

I have a 642 and a 640. I like them enough to carry both often. They are very concealable and work well for me. I have custom wood grips on both of them. My wife has a model 60 Lady Smith. I put some girly pearl grips on it for her. She likes that sort of thing.

Have a good one,

Don

 

[NiklasP]

Various folks have mentioned Pachmayr Compac grips. Found that they cover the backstrap and may be more or less as suitable for me as the Uncle Mike's rubber grips that S&W puts on many J-frames.

Next day or two I should be testing a couple reloads -- 148 grain Rem HBWC at somewhat over 800 fps, using Green Dot, and Speer SWC HP lead bullets at something over 1000 fps, propelled by Blue Dot (basically the FBI load). Grips will be Pachmayr Grippers for this shooting. Excellent reasons to expect good groups and little or no leading, minimal noise, little or no fireballs and good control -- if so, on to other test shooting. Hopefully, this FBI-type load will become my general load. A third load will likely be meanist full-up 357 heavy (180-200 grains)lead bullet load I can shoot well in this lightweight revolver.

Niklas

 

[Seaforth]

***** Take a look at the S&W Model 60 Pro Series. It comes with an extended Grip that allows for an all finger grip. 3 Inch barrel, front night sight, camphers charge holes and adjustable sights. I very nice carry gun.

 

[Seaforth]

Originally posted by Seaforth:
***** Take a look at the S&W Model 60 Pro Series. .357 Mag. It comes with an extended Grip that allows for an high all finger grip. 3 Inch barrel, front night sight, expanded entry charge holes and adjustable sights. A very nice carry gun.