Gunfight A Block Away From The OK Corral

[shouldazagged]

This morning I watched a forensic reconstruction of the infamous "OK Corral" shootout on the Military Channel. Interesting stuff.

They had several convincing re-enactors, a gaggle of noted Western historians, a ballistics expert, physiologist (registering stress effects), etc. The weapons used except for a paintball simulation in a stress test were period-appropriate, and better still, firing black powder ammo to include smoke in the equation. They had the ballistics expert fire ten gauge shotgun rounds, from a gun like the one Doc Holliday was carrying, into a side of beef to determine the range and angle of one victim's wounds, based on the coroner's testimony and realistic estimates of pattern spread.

They eventually concluded, in a claustrophobically-close re-enactment that tied together all the evidence they had to work with, that it was not an execution by the Earp brothers and Holliday as some have claimed, but probably a righteous arrest attempt that went terribly wrong because all parties were at an extreme level of stress and pumping adrenalin out their ears.

Pretty persuasive job. If you haven't seen it, you might want to watch for it--it bears very little resemblance to most of the movie portrayals of the incident.

 

[feralmerril]

I didnt see that but possibly later on the same channel they were doing a similar shootout on butch cassidy and the sundance kid. My opinion is you could take the same people, same conditions and have repeated shootouts and probley get different results every time they reinacted the shootouts.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

When I was there I took a stroll following the Earp's route to the vacant lot on Fremont St., which is just the main highway through town now. The close proximity these guys were to each other is amazing. But like you said about black powder, after a couple shots and under stress it would have been hard to see your target. I'll have to see if I can find that episode.
Here's a picture of where they were. That little metal fence represents the wall of the house that boxed them in back then and kept the smoke trapped for a while. Billy Clanton died leaning against that wall that was there.

 

[Straightshooter2]

I really thought it interesting how they accidentally discovered how Frank(?) McLaury got the buckshot wound under his arm. McLaury's horse was between him and Doc Holiday and eyewitness accounts said he reached over the horse to grab his rifle out of the scabbard. As he reached up and over with his right arm, he was holding the reins in his left hand. Reaching over caused the guy playing McLaury to pull the reins causing the horse to move in a circle to the left. This brought McLaury around into Doc's view and with his arm up reaching for the rifle, the buckshot hit him in the side.

CW

 

[mg357]

I have watched this specific documentary many times and i enjoy it very much.

 

[shouldazagged]

My opinion is you could take the same people, same conditions and have repeated shootouts and probley get different results every time they reinacted the shootouts.

I don't know, these folks really did their homework and used a lot of research, documented testimony and forensic technique. I was impressed with the plausibility of the reconstruction.

But of course YMMV.

 

[old bear]

it was not an execution by the Earp brothers and Holliday

I never believed it was an execution yet the Earps' were spoiling for a fight. I also feel that the Earps' were smart enough not to pick a fight they did not believe they could win.

 

[opoefc]

Over 80 yrs. ago, as a young lad, I grew up in Tombstone and my buddies and I often played out the OK Corral shoot out in various senarios. Each of us wanted to be Wyatt Earp, of course, so we had to take turns as to who would be the bad guys and the good guys. We fired a lot of caps in our cap guns ! The OK Corral was just a run down bunch of adobe walls then, open to Fremont St. on the south side. I still have a rusty relic S&W New Model that was dug up at the site in the 1920s. I'll have to check it for cowboy DNA ! Maybe thrown away by one of the cowboys that fled the shoot out? Ed.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I saw the whole thing. At least how it went down last year. I think there are at least 3 shoot outs in Tombstone every day now like in Chicago.

Far more interesting to me was the whole Clanton ranch operation and the cattle rustling that went on around there. That got a lot more people killed than the shoot out at the OK corral.

Ike Clanton was at the OK corral but split before the shooting started. He was killed 6 years later when he resisted arrest for rustling. His dad (Newman Clanton) and 5 others were ambushed by Mexican soldiers while moving stolen cattle near Douglas in 1881. The cattle were probably stolen in Mexico. Seems nobody had a lot of patience for cattle rustlers back then.

I used to hunt deer when I was in highschool in Guadalupe Canyon where that massacre took place. All real boring stuff to the locals that lived around there. I always thought it was interesting as a kid.

 

[the ringo kid]

Their ought to be a warning first--when it comes to resurrecting old threads so people like me,dont post in them like they are brand new,

 

[kaaskop49]

Their ought to be a warning first--when it comes to resurrecting old threads so people like me,dont post in them like they are brand new,

Will the old thread safely handle +P ammo?

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. Kidding aside, I find these "forensic re-enactments" can flog these incidents to death. There was one on the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. Why? It was obvious what happened. There are other examples, the Titanic being foremost in my mind.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Hey Ringo- Heads Up- Old Thread Ahead!
The funny thing to me is I was thinking about doing a
OK Corral Revisited Thread.
I find what happened before the shoot out and what happened after the shoot out
to be more interesting and revealing than the actual shoot out itself.

 

[the ringo kid]

Will the old thread safely handle +P ammo?

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. Kidding aside, I find these "forensic re-enactments" can flog these incidents to death. There was one on the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. Why? It was obvious what happened. There are other examples, the Titanic being foremost in my mind.

Heh heh,that'll work.

Speaking of flogging and fogging the issue.The Japanese are remembering the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima--neglecting to admit that it was because of them--it ws dropped.

 

[the ringo kid]

Hey Ringo- Heads Up- Old Thread Ahead!
The funny thing to me is I was thinking about doing a
OK Corral Revisited Thread.
I find what happened before the shoot out and what happened after the shoot out
to be more interesting and revealing than the actual shoot out itself.

Heh heh,that wouldnt bother me,what gets me is im not usually paying attention to dates--and post like id never seen the thread before? Perhaps due to brain damage??

Heck,since its old west related--you will not find me complaining.

 

[kaaskop49]

Hey Ringo- Heads Up- Old Thread Ahead!
The funny thing to me is I was thinking about doing a
OK Corral Revisited Thread.
I find what happened before the shoot out and what happened after the shoot out
to be more interesting and revealing than the actual shoot out itself.

I agree. I'd always wanted to visit Tombstone, but decided not to after reading "Wyatt Earp: A Vigilante Life" by Andrew C. Isenberg. Not the "white hat" that history has made him out to be. Interesting, isn't it, how further details keep popping up about this incident. Many shades of gray.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I agree. I'd always wanted to visit Tombstone, but decided not to after reading "Wyatt Earp: A Vigilante Life" by Andrew C. Isenberg. Not the "white hat" that history has made him out to be. Interesting, isn't it, how further details keep popping up about this incident. Many shades of gray.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Have been to Tombstone a number of times, most recently this spring.
I like it a lot, probably Boot Hill more than the gunfight locale.
It is a little of a tourist trap, but a fun tourist trap.
Bisbee is just down the road. I usually stay north of there in Benson.
Ft. Hauchuca is West of there.
Wyatt going feral - most of the time he was a tough lawman who hit drunks in the head with his revolver. That was called 'buffaloing .'
After one brother was killed, one wounded- he changed. He just rode around and shot folks.
That was called the Vendetta Ride, then he left Arizona.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earp_Vendetta_Ride

 

[the ringo kid]

I wonder if they still charge a hefty fee to see the corral? I was there circa 82, and they were charging a sawbuck then.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Bisbee is just down the road. I usually stay north of there in Benson.

Another very colorful town to visit. One of my favorites. If it weren't for tourists those towns would be in terrible economic depression if they existed at all. So they play to the tourists to stay alive. Actually there are many old mining towns worth a visit, Silver City NM and Jerome AZ are two more. Tombstone just had a lot of bad apples living in the area as it was the last place in the US where a person could make a good living stealing cattle and robbing folks. If things got too hot you could just go into Mexico, pay a few Federales off and wait until the dust settled.

Here's a travel book recommendation.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Roadside-History-Arizona-Series/dp/0878424717"]Roadside History of Arizona (Roadside History Series): Marshall Trimble: 9780878424719: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NnfeBgx3L.@@AMEPARAM@@51NnfeBgx3L[/ame]

Read it and tell me you don't want to wander around there for awhile.

While in Bisbee try this place if you like Vietnamese food. Best I've ever had.
https://plus.google.com/106651552520462811647/about?gl=us&hl=en

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I wonder if they still charge a hefty fee to see the corral? I was there circa 82, and they were charging a sawbuck then.

It's $10 for the entire show, tour, etc.
Remember the shoot out wasn't at the OK Corral.
It was in the vacant lot next to the C S Fly Photography Shop and Boarding House.
It's never been real clear to me as to why the Cowboys were actually in the vacant lot.
One possibility is they were trying to ambush Doc Holiday.
He and Big Nose Kate were staying in the boarding house.
And the vacant lot was located on a route the Earps often took.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

One of the most interesting things about this gunfight and the resulting legend is the person that caused Wyatt and Doc to meet in the first place, Dave Rudabaugh. So, it has been stated but who knows for 100 percent that after his arrest with Billy the Kid in NM, he was sent to the Las Vegas, NM jail with a JJ Webb. Well they both escaped and Rudabaugh supposedly joined up with the Cowboys, and participated in the ambush of Morgan/ Virgil Earp. So, maybe he was able to deal out some sort of revenge.

However, by the time the Earp vendetta ride happened, he had skinned out to Juarez Mexico where he lost his head, literally. As the town folk, wary of his ways shot and killed him then cut off his head parading it around town on a pole. Dave Rudabaugh and Pony Diehl were the only individuals who participated in the Lincoln County War and crossed paths with the Cowboy vs Earp feud.