H 110 vs. W 296 in .44 Magnum, which gives best accuracy?

[Marksman]

I am going to load some hunting ammo for my Ruger 77/44 .44 Magnum
and will be using Hornady 240 gr. XTP bullets. My powder of choice is H 110, due to the continuing powder shortage I'm not sure that I'll be able to find any. My question is this, since H 110 and Win 296 are considered ballistic twins is there much difference when loading one powder versus the other? So far I have found neither of these powders, I was able to find some Blue Dot. Has anyone loaded Blue Dot under 240 XTP's? Were you able to develop accurate loads using Blue Dot?

 

[dennis40x]

H110 and W296 are one in the same. There is no difference other than lot variation.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Since you live in the "GREAT WHITE NORTH".........

Blue Dot may not be the best because of the cold weather we encounter here in Hoosier Land!

It has been noted for years and years that Blue Dot is extremely temperature sensitive below freezing. Worse as it gets colder than that. Pressure spikes are the "norm" with this power in the winter.

If it were me, and I wanted H110/W296 and it wasn't available, I think I would use Accurate Arms #9 next and then 2400. Lil' Gun is my powder of choice for those loads at present but I am becoming increasingly apprehensive as I check out some of the information coming out lately.

Have you done any tests as far as accuracy with that rifle yet? I had a friend who's dad couldn't get anything better than 6" groups @ 100 yards with one.


FWIW

 

[Marksman]

I have some ammo loaded with 2400 and Unique, I'll continue to hunt for H 110 and W 296 and forget about Blue Dot.

 

[H Richard]

H110 and W296 are identical, and made by the same manufacturer. I prefer AA#9, or IMR4227 for full power loads.

 

[DonD]

Lil' Gun is my powder of choice for those loads at present but I am becoming increasingly apprehensive as I check out some of the information coming out lately. FWIW

What have you heard about LilGun? Hodgdon is very bullish on that powder. Thanks, Don

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'll add my voice to the rest, W296 and H110 are the same exact powders and it's been verified by Hodgdon.

As for Lil'Gun, according to the load data when using a 180gr bullet in the .357 Magnum Lil'Gun will deliver the highest velocity of any powder while producing the least pressure. I don't know how that's achieved but it's true. On the other hand, in a .44 Magnum there really is no bullet weight where that's completely true and with lighter bullets there is actually more pressure than with W296/H110. However, when you load a 210gr bullet even though the velocity is slightly higher with Lil'Gun so is the pressure. When you load a 240gr bullet the pressures and velocity is almost exactly the same so if you can find Lil'Gun I see no reason not to use it, especially since it's a clean accurate powder. By the time you get to a 300gr bullet the pressures are starting to drop (by a slight margin) but so are the velocity numbers. IMO using Lil'Gun in a .44 Magnum will produce no significant advantage like it does with heavy bullets in the .357 Magnum but in turn it's not a disadvantage either.

IMO W296/H110, AA#9, 2400, 4227, Lil'Gun and Enforcer will all do a good job in both the .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. It all comes down to what you and your handgun likes best. Also IMO reloaders use the product from the company they are most comfortable with. If they like Accurate Arms powders they are likely to use AA#9 for Magnum loading. If Alliant is their preference than 2400 will probably be their choice and so on. Personally I use W296/H110, 2400 and Lil'Gun for my Magnum loading depending on the application.

 

[Treeman]

Lil' Gun is my powder of choice for those loads at present but I am becoming increasingly apprehensive as I check out some of the information coming out lately.

FWIW

Come now Skip, you who cavort with abandon in regions where angels fear to tread (Speer#8/SR4756) surely must not be discouraged by a few erosion rumours?- I admit that there are some daunting posts regarding lil gun and forcing cone erosion but the powder has been out for years and except for the recall of one batch it has been loaded a lot without problems. I 'm concerned but skeptical about the supposed gun damage.

 

[running iron]

I just got some 2400 and could not find 296 or 110. 2400 will work very well and AA#9 is also a very good choice if you can find it. I'd try to stick with the slower burning powders if you can.

 

[sonny]

Lil' Gun is my powder of choice for those loads at present but I am becoming increasingly apprehensive as I check out some of the information coming out lately.
FWIW

Bob Baker (Freedom Arms) has written that his company has seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil Gun. They did comparison studies using the same gun and H-110 and Lil Gun, chopping off the barrel and rethreading as they went through the experiment. Heavy loads of Lil Gun heated up the gun to the point of actual metal flow, apparently due to the increased proportion of nitroglycerin in Lil Gun.
I like H-110 for heavy loads and 2400, HS-6 and Unique for lighter loads.
Sonny

 

[Littledragon777]

I have been loading AA#5 in my Super Redhahk using XTPs and they have been delivering exceptional accuracy for me.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Quite a choice of words!

cavort with abandon

I 'm concerned but skeptical about the supposed gun damage.

Literary license allows for you to make such a statement but nothing could be further from the truth. I cavort without abandon, dear friend! Simply treading on paths already trod. If I was to cavort with abandon I would go even higher than the Speer #8!

I guess I too am a bit skeptical about the supposed gun damage but then again, I'm not using Lil' Gun in revolvers too much. Most, 99.9% of my 44Mag loading is for Marlin 1894 lever guns.

FWIW

 

[Skip Sackett]

Heavy loads of Lil Gun heated up the gun to the point of actual metal flow,

Was this in the 44Mag or another caliber?

 

[semperfi71]

H-110 and 296 will give different levels of accuracy in the same handgun with the same loads.

Plus one handgun will shoot 296 more accurately and then another handgun will prefer H-110.

Therefore I respectfully disagree with those here who say that both powders are one and the same.

Same goes for any other powder.

If you want the most accurate "magnum" load for your .44 magnum handgun then you must get all the various "magnum" powders and try each one with all other components remaining the same.

I would not advise Bluedot. It now appears it is very unreliable in pressure and supposedly the manufacturer has even advised not to use it in .41 Magnum loads at all.

I hope this helps.

 

[Skip Sackett]

semper,

I think you need to have just a tiny bit more information given to you. H110 & W296 ARE THE EXACT SAME POWDER according to the manufacturer.

It isn't OUR opinion, it is THEIR information given to the public. Call Hodgdon. Speak to the technician, his name is Mike. He will verify that they are the same powder. That's not to say that there isn't variations between lots and in that manner you may have accuracy differences, no more than from lot to lot of any powder.

Don't believe us, check it out for yourself. Just a simple phone call and you will know for sure.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Skip-
I have been in contact with Bob Baker of Freedom Arms myself. He assured me yesterday that the trouble with Lil'Gun was with other high intensity rounds as well as the .454. I asked him, because that is/was my favorite powder in my .475 Linebaugh. I won't be using it anymore after hearing their experiences with it. It only took a couple hundred rounds to ruin one mans barrel. It was replaced for the third time before they got it figured out.

Sonny's post is right on, and that same info is posted on another forum that Mr. Baker visits.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

semper,

I think you need to have just a tiny bit more information given to you. H110 & W296 ARE THE EXACT SAME POWDER according to the manufacturer.

It isn't OUR opinion, it is THEIR information given to the public. Call Hodgdon. Speak to the technician, his name is Mike. He will verify that they are the same powder. That's not to say that there isn't variations between lots and in that manner you may have accuracy differences, no more than from lot to lot of any powder.

Don't believe us, check it out for yourself. Just a simple phone call and you will know for sure.

Hope this helps.

This is correct.

Also, 231 and HP38 are the exact same powder. It all comes from the same dispenser. It simply goes into different canisters, depending on which brand they are running that day.

I have talked to Mike myself, on several occasions, and he said that the differences between any of these powders in performance, is only the difference between lots and that, that is normal.

 

[Treeman]

Skip, -Yes,'twas definitely literary license and satire-I've read enough of your posts to know that you use caution out in the handloading hinterlands. I'm bummed by these reports re lil gun. I have worked up some dandy loads with it.

 

[Skip Sackett]

NO PROBLEMO, Friend!

Skip, -Yes,'twas definitely literary license and satire-I've read enough of your posts to know that you use caution out in the handloading hinterlands. I'm bummed by these reports re lil gun. I have worked up some dandy loads with it.

I'm having some personal issues with the Lil' Gun information as well. I WANT to use it because of the performance increase BUT struggle with the LOGIC behind having a powder that is going to do damage to my "babies", so to speak.

I did some investigation on developing loads using it for my 44mag, which for the most part are for rifle loads, so it makes sense to me to use it.

The forcing cone issues are common for ALL ball powders at magnum levels, from what I know. Case in point: H110/W296 and 357Mag loads in M28s that friends of mine have. Lots of top strap erosion and such with that powder too. Haven't heard anything bad about AA#9 or 2400 though. Maybe, just maybe, we will all go "backwards" and start using the old workhorse 2400 for our magnum loads after all!

 

[fredj338]

semper,

I think you need to have just a tiny bit more information given to you. H110 & W296 ARE THE EXACT SAME POWDER according to the manufacturer.

It isn't OUR opinion, it is THEIR information given to the public. Call Hodgdon. Speak to the technician, his name is Mike. He will verify that they are the same powder. That's not to say that there isn't variations between lots and in that manner you may have accuracy differences, no more than from lot to lot of any powder.

Don't believe us, check it out for yourself. Just a simple phone call and you will know for sure.

Hope this helps.

It is true today. Back before Hogdon bought Win. powders out, they were diff. only slightly but diff. TOday's lots are the same & use the same data.
I load & shoot a lot of 44mag over the eyars & like H110 but only for full power max loads. For a little broader load range, I like 2400, especailly w/ lead bullets. I have recently bought some AA#9 I want to try but would be happy loading full power stuff w/ H110 or 2400.