H 110 vs. W 296 in .44 Magnum, which gives best accuracy?

[canoe on the yukon]

Fred,

I respectfully disagree.I believe that H110 and W296 have ALWAYS been the same.Same powder but marketed by two seperate companies.The fact that two companies later merged has nothing to do with the contents in the cans.

 

[BruceM]

H110 was a surplus powder used by the military for M1 carbine ammunition (according to Hodgdon). W296 was a similar propellant developed by Olin for use in .410 shot shells among other things. In the beginning, they were slightly different but so close that, for all intents and purposes, loading data was identical as were the requirements that it be used only in full power loads. The two even smelled different. Once the supply of surplus powder ran out in the early 1980's, that all changed.

When I started using it in the late 1970's, H110 worked better for me with cast bullets while W296 was the ticket for jacketed. That is now a moot point.



Bruce

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I stand corrected.I used H110 (a couple of pounds)in 1970 and a few years later,used W296.

I still have a Sierra manual printed in 1970 which gives data that is IDENTICAL to today except for the fact that 50 FPS along with the accompanied charge weight is cut off from the top end.

Example.....In 50 FPS increments,charge weights are listed up to 1450 FPS where the current manuals only go up to 1400 FPS.

 

[colo native]

Keith's load 24,24,24.+ 240 gr pill, 24 gr, 2400...

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Keith's load 24,24,24.+ 240 gr pill, 24 gr, 2400...

I'm not sure I follow you.Keith's recommended load in the 44 magnum is quite well known......Keith's bullet design of a 250 gr SWC/22 gr of 2400,standard large pistol primer.

Where are you getting "24" from?

 

[Skip Sackett]

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H110 was a surplus powder used by the military for M1 carbine ammunition (according to Hodgdon).

Bruce, when H110 is sold as a surplus powder, or rather it's equivalent, it is called WC820. I have a gallon jug of the stuff that is pulled down from 30 Carbine ammo.

Here is a picture:

You can also get some surplus powder that is called WC297. Here is an advertisement from Pat's reloading site.

WC297 Virgin, (Little slower than WC296) This OEM powder is used by commercial loaders use for 357-44 Magnum, 89.99 for 8 lbs.

Surplus powder is surplus powder, never to be compared to cannister powder. Although, the lot I have of WC820 is said to load like H110 or AA#9, depending on who you ask.

What I liked about this powder is that it was cheap! $8 per pound. Oh, no muzzle flash either!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Here is Keith's data!

I'm not sure I follow you.Keith's recommended load in the 44 magnum is quite well known......Keith's bullet design of a 250 gr SWC/22 gr of 2400,standard large pistol primer.

Where are you getting "24" from?

Here is a picture of Keith's data. Notice the 44Mag loads. 22gr Hercules 2400.

Notice this too, not everything he recommends is a "smoking hot" load! We tend to get a mental image of him shooting full house loads every time he touched a firearm.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Have you ever shot 4.0gr of Bullseye under a 250gr bullet? Talk about pussycat loads! No one ever talks about that though!

 

[colo native]

I'm not sure I follow you.Keith's recommended load in the 44 magnum is quite well known......Keith's bullet design of a 250 gr SWC/22 gr of 2400,standard large pistol primer.

Where are you getting "24" from?

Lyman book43 pg 149 235gr pb 16gr 2400= 1090
25gr 2400= 1580
235 is very close to 240, so I call it 240
I do not recomend any using this load, but as it is, it was published before lawsuits run amock...

 

[BruceM]

"Bruce, when H110 is sold as a surplus powder, or rather it's equivalent, it is called WC820. I have a gallon jug of the stuff that is pulled down from 30 Carbine ammo."

That may very well be so. All I can say is that after Hodgdon's "Surplus" supply ran out, the new cans read something like Reformulated H110" or "Newly Manufactured H110". At one time I had a really old container from the "reformulated" version but I doubt I still have it of the bottom shelf of my reloading bench. I know that WC820 is very close but have never actually used any. I also do not know if WC820 is canister grade or if you have to work up new loads after each jug is depleted.

Bruce

 

[Skip Sackett]

Not Keith's load.

Lyman book43 pg 149 235gr pb 16gr 2400= 1090
25gr 2400= 1580
235 is very close to 240, so I call it 240
I do not recomend any using this load, but as it is, it was published before lawsuits run amock...

I think the point that canoe was speaking to was this: "It may be a load, just not Keith's".

If you look at the picture I posted above, you will see his loads.

235 isn't 250gr like his bullets are designed to be so .........

Let's keep apples, apples and Keith's loads, Keith's loads.
There already is a misnomer in a ton of bullet names in regards to this. Another point I think canoe was trying to speak to. (Sorry for speaking for you, canoe! Correct me if I'm wrong!)

 

[colo native]

I think the point that canoe was speaking to was this: "It may be a load, just not Keith's".

If you look at the picture I posted above, you will see his loads.

235 isn't 250gr like his bullets are designed to be so .........

Let's keep apples, apples and Keith's loads, Keith's loads.
There already is a misnomer in a ton of bullet names in regards to this. Another point I think canoe was trying to speak to. (Sorry for speaking for you, canoe! Correct me if I'm wrong!)

It may not be Keith's (published) load, ,,, read in what you want,,,

 

[colo native]

Ya know i thought I shouldnt post this, being a novice, and only reloading since about 1955, after some instruction in Trinidad, Colo from an old family friend, 75 miles from where I lived, seems as though I can still learn, thankx and please excuse me...

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Skip,

You are 100 % correct.

 

[Skip Sackett]

You aren't the only one that is still learning, friend!

Ya know i thought I shouldnt post this, being a novice, and only reloading since about 1955, after some instruction in Trinidad, Colo from an old family friend, 75 miles from where I lived, seems as though I can still learn, thankx and please excuse me...

No excuse necessary my friend!

The only time we can stop learning on purpose is when we aren't among those walking on the face of the earth!

(Really, as I think about it, we will really be learning then. Either good, or bad! )

p.s. Not to make you feel old or anything colo, but you have been reloading longer than I have been alive and I'M OLD, DUDE!

 

[colo native]

Thankx, I've been rather lucky, I've met folks like Jeff Cooper, John Schooley, George Whitington, and listened to all, but just dont retain all of it..
Again my appoligies,

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Thankx, I've been rather lucky, I've met folks like Jeff Cooper, John Schooley, George Whitington, and listened to all, but just dont retain all of it..
Again my appoligies,

You have nothing to apologize for.I don't know anyone that never makes an error.Of course,I never make iny mestakes.

 

[buck460XVR]

H 110 vs. W 296 in .44 Magnum, which gives best accuracy?

IMHO....whichever you have on hand. As stated earlier(until the two page sidetrack, which BTW, was very informative) in the modern formulation, the powders are one and the same. Under a 240 grain JHP/JSP, @ magnum velocities, I've yet to find any powder that pushes 'em more accurately than H110/W296.

 

[thomashoward]

There are no shortcuts due to a lot of variables, you just need to shoot them. I start in the middle range of loads and increase the powder by one half a grain all the way to max loads listed looking for pressure signs of stress on the case. The top loads listed generally, but not all the time,
DO NOT provide the best accuracy.

My every day cast load for the .44 is the Keith 429421 over 21 gr.of H110
also
23 gr H110 with Sierra 240 gr JHC
21.5 gr 296 with Sierra 250 gr FPJ for hogs
Federal # 155 primer for all

use hard roll crimp, and of course work up
good shooting