Hand Ejector Timing Problem

[jmiles1960]

I am restoring an old 32-20 S&W Hand Ejector model and have a problem with the hand sticking on two of the six chambers during single action cocking. When the cocking the hammer, the hand doesn't release and the trigger stays back. I have to tap on the right side of the cylinder and it will release.

I have disassembled and cleaned all parts thoroughly. The hand itself looks to be in excellent condition, edges are square. It may have been replaced. I see no wear on it. As for the rachet, the gears/teeth look fairly all the same from my eyes. This is my first S&W overhaul and my experience is a work in progress.

Four of the six chambers cycle and lock up smoothly and consistently. Just the same two cause the hand to stick. I have to tap on the right side of the cylinder and the hand drops and the trigger pops forward. I have tried cleaning the ratchet, a very light polishing with 2000 paper on the gears, and grease with no change. Also, the cylinder spins straight on the rod.

All springs are likely original, but I can't tell for sure.

I would appreciate advice on how to solve this. I didn't want to start taking metal off the hand or messing with the ratchet. This gun has had plenty of use; the ratchet could be worn or the hand replaced and not fitted, IDK. Any help or is greatly appreciated. I have messed with it for hours.

BTW, I have ordered Jerry K.'s S&W repair book!

Thanks

 

[series guy]

I would bet that the rebound slide spring has been cut or replaced with a much lighter spring.

 

[jmiles1960]

Series_guy: thanks for the tip. The more I am single-actioning the gun, the less it is hanging up. Maybe it just needs some time to loosen up, or the spring(s) are weak as you suggested.

The gun was badly rusted when I got it. Mostly on the surface and had not gotten behind the side plate and mechanism fortunately.

As I project, I disassembled and soaked everything to remove the rust, re-lubricate and overall it operates as smooth as any K-frame gun I own. I just couldn't figure out why the trigger would hang back on those two chambers, but the problem may be working itself out... time will tell.

Maybe I'll put new springs in it anyway. The rust killed the value of this piece, damaging the lettering and causing bad pitting. It's just a shooter, but well worth saving.

 

[glowe]

. . . Also, the cylinder spins straight on the rod . . .
Thanks

Am I understanding correctly that the problem occurs on the same two chambers every time it sticks? If so, the internal mechanism should be OK, but the alignment of the cylinder with the frame and hand might be an issue? Weak springs would not cause the sticking on the same two cylinders every time, but would be much more random.

Your comment above gave me a thought. The rotation of the cylinder on the extractor rod should never be off, BUT the crane could be slightly bent so as to cant the cylinder. First, does your ejector rod knob retention pin pop into place when you close your cylinder? When it is fully engaged with the knob, is should be just barely visible protruding from the front of the barrel lug.

Second, if the extractor rod is bent, the hand may not align with all chambers if the rod turns with the cylinder. Anyway, give the cylinder assembly a close look to make sure everything is properly aligned and let us know what you find.

 

[Hondo44]

Is it two adjacent chambers?

Did you open the cyl and push backward on the thumb release so you can cock the hammer without the cyl?

If the hand still hangs up w/o cyl, look for the hand binding on one side or the other of the hand window in the recoil shield. The angle of those two teeth or the angle of the ramp where the hand slides over between teeth may cause the hand to slightly twist and hang up in its window in the recoil shield. Break sharp edges on the hand shaft so they can't dig into the window sides.

Or as glowe suggested the cyl is canted and at it's extreme cant for those two chambers.

Make sure the hand is not catching in the ratchet teeth. The horizontal edges of the teeth where the hand pushes on, may be slightly undercut so the tip may catch on those two teeth once the cyl turns and locks in place. Or push the hand to the side slightly to catch on the window.

Although I suspect the ratchet teeth are the problem since the same two chambers always hang up the hand, I'd still check to make sure the hand is not binding in the trigger where it pivots.

The trigger rebound slide spring likely has nothing to do with it since only two chambers are involved.

What vintage 32-20 do you have? Is the hand return spring in the trigger or in the side plate safety? The pin and spring in the side plate has been known to stick. It could stick in the out position keeping tension on the hand, but again not likely with the same two chambers always involved.

 

[jmiles1960]

Jim & Gary: thanks for the diagnosis, suggestions and details. Sorry this is short. I am about to head out of town for the weekend.

Yes, the hand sticks on the same two chambers consistently. Oddly, the more I single-action the gun, the less it appears to be sticking today. Nudging the trigger forward causes it to free / un-stick. Also, tapping the right side of the cylinder. Whatever is out of tolerance, it is slight.

With the cylinder open and the latch pushed, the hammer and trigger / mechanism operate smoothing (i.e. w/o the cylinder in place). I disassembled, cleaned, lubed and put it back together and works nice. Only when the cylinder is closed do I have this problem on those two chambers.

This variation has the spring loaded hand attached to the trigger, not the spring in the side plate variation. The hand is clean, crisp (edges) and has good tension.

The cylinder could be out of alignment on the crane / yoke as you mentioned. It opens and closes smoothly against the pin and I could not see any noticeable run out or excessive play. As you suggested, I suspect the ratchet teeth. I can't see any significant difference in the teeth condition.

Anyway, the more I cycle the action, the less it seems to be sticking today, so this may be a non-issue. This piece has had a rough life and was just glad to salvage her back to operational condition as a learning project. I'll get some pics posted. The rust did some real surface damage and pitting.

Thanks again for the help and expertise.

Jim Miles