Hard Cast Lead 357s

[Finn McCool]

I currently have been reloading 158 gr LSWCs from Rim Rock. These have a BHN of 12. I have kept the velocity down low to prevent leading. I was thinking about ordering some hard cast LSWCs that have a BHN of 20-22. Am I correct in assuming that the hard cast lead will handle higher velocities? I'll be shooting these in my 586 by the way. Thanks in advance.

 

[Maximumbob54]

If they fit the cylinder throats and the bore and they have the proper lube, then they shouldn't lead the bore. "Hard cast" does not = No leading in magnums. There is more to it than that.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Bullets .001 over bore size typically don't lead at speeds under 1500fps.

Therefore, loading magnums with cast (as I do) when properly sized won't be a problem.

Some use gas checks for loads over @ 1200fps, but with proper fit, it isn't necessary.

FWIW, I use straight wheel weights air cooled and White Label BAC lube in all my calibers.

 

[Treeman]

Actually, hard and too small can lead rather badly. The science of matching alloy hardness , bullet fit and pressures for proper obturation can be very interesting....and useful in extreme cases. Mostly a halfway decent fit, a halfway hard bullet and a half fast loading work just fine. I find 12 BH to be acceptable for almost any handgun load-Powder puff to Magnum.

 

[mtgianni]

I regularly push BHN 12 from a rifle @ 2200 fps. Yes they are gas checked but I would not worry about shooting what you have if they fit and the lube holds up.

 

[Larry from Bend]

As stated --- really hard bullets, as in 20-22, can lead more than softer bullets. It takes about 21,000 psi to obiturate a 15-16 Brinnel bullet. Generally, that means that a decent 357 load will make this hardness of bullet fit the barrel --- IF the fit is pretty good to start with.

Except for Bear Loads in 44 Mag (which ARE 20-22 to avoid deformation) I like the 15-16 better.

 

[Skip Sackett]

In handgun cartridge loads, even for those that end up in a carbine, it has been my experience that you NEVER need more than 18BHN, never.

All of my loads fit the firearms though. Fit is the #1 thing when it comes to shooting lead with minimal leading. Powder selection can play a part as well. Case in point: 44Mag loads that are going to be shot in a Marlin 1894. I worked on this all summer. Since I have some really nice 44 caliber moulds, take a look at this boolit:

I wanted them to shoot well out of this really cool looking rifle. Everyone knows that the Marlin 1894 in 44Mag has an oversize bore. Since this mould came in .434", I thought I was golden. Not so much! Not to start with at least. At first I was loading on a Dillon Square Deal B. Lots of rounds in a hurry BUT, that last station acts just like a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It resized the bullet in the case. So, last gun show, I picked up a used set of 44Mag dies just for the seating/crimp die and I put them in my RL450B, no more resizing during crimp. Problem #1 solved. I was using a powder that was the lowest pressure available to make the velocity I wanted. Problem was, not enough pressure to make the bullet obturate. If they don't do that, bad things can happen! So, straight wheel weights, air cooled over a different powder. I chose AA#9. Had lots of it, can be downloaded a bit, although I don't, uses a standard primer and puts the pressure right up to the top of the 44Mag specs. Softer bullet seals off (obturates) and is flying out of that barrel @ 1800fps, no gas checks. What kind of accuracy? Take a look for yourself. This is 100 yards and my thumb measures just over 1" tip to first knuckle, that is, when they aren't dragging! Here:

After this group was shot, I changed the scope settings bringing it up a mite. Actually, I was super surprised that I got this kind of accuracy and had to go downrange to get a picture of it!

There is absolutely no leading with this load either. I think I need to qualify that just a bit. There was one more step that I took in this whole scenario that may have played a bit part in the results too. I took a 410ga swab and soaked it in a water based fine valve grinding compound and worked it a bit through the bore. More strokes at the chamber end than at the muzzle. This bore had a bunch of tight spots as well as machine marks.

Hope this helps.

 

[hawgleg]

I like 16 to 18 BHN for my 357's load. I think 20 to 22 is a bit much but they will work. I think 20 to 22 BHN would be for magnum magnums really pushing the fringe.

 

[Maximumbob54]

There goes Skip showing off again and making us all look like lead bullet newbies...

 

[Skip Sackett]

Sorry!

You wouldn't think I was showing off too much tonight! There are times when EVERYTHING goes perfect and then there are times when NOTHING does!

I was casting away with one of my Mihec moulds, the one from the picture, 434640 and then intermingling my 434256 with the penta pins in and things were going GREAT then all I did was change to the 4-20 Lee pot from the 10# one and things went downhill from there! FAST!

I couldn't get a bullet (boolit) to fill out after that! UUGGGGHHHH!

And I'm still trying to figure out how this happened but, I got 2 of the guide pins for the HP pin inserts stuck and couldn't get the mould closed.

So, I let things cool off, found some lead where it shouldn't be in the mould, got that cleaned out and the pin issue fixed and put stuff up. Maybe tomorrow things will be better.

I know one thing, I am going back to the 10# pot! Not sure why yet. Maybe I should try the ladle. Well, at any rate, that will have to wait until tomorrow now. It is about 20*F in the garage and my feet are cold!

I know, someone call the "WWWAAAAAHHHH-mbulance"

 

[Maximumbob54]

Never had a MP-Mold lock up on me like that yet. Did you lube the hollow point arms? Not the pins... the rods that go through the mold. Mine get stiff if they get dry.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Never had a MP-Mold lock up on me like that yet. Did you lube the hollow point arms? Not the pins... the rods that go through the mold. Mine get stiff if they get dry.

Um, no. But then again, I never have and I have several of his moulds. My bad though and yes, this one WILL get lubed before next use!


Live and learn.

 

[Finn McCool]

Thanks for the replies. I actually thought I would get responses that said, "Yeah sure, that should work". I should have known, things are always more complicated than you think.

I think I'll stick with the softer lead and work up until leading becomes a problem.

Can anyone recommend somewhere to get good lead reloading data? Speer and Hornady are really weak in that area. Lyman seems pretty good, but not exactly what I'm looking for.

Once again, thanks. This forum rocks.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Thanks for the replies. I actually thought I would get responses that said, "Yeah sure, that should work". I should have known, things are always more complicated than you think.

I think I'll stick with the softer lead and work up until leading becomes a problem.

Can anyone recommend somewhere to get good lead reloading data? Speer and Hornady are really weak in that area. Lyman seems pretty good, but not exactly what I'm looking for.

Once again, thanks. This forum rocks.

It gets beat up by some on the Castboolits forum, but I still start with the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. What is a maximum load always seems to be open for debate with some, but I don't load to max limits so that book works well for me. But good cast load data is as subjective as any reloading data. There doesn't seem to be the one golden book that we all agree with being the best. Sorry to make this a half answer.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Um, no. But then again, I never have and I have several of his moulds. My bad though and yes, this one WILL get lubed before next use!


Live and learn.

I lube the steel vs. brass points just in the attempt to not wear out the brass with the steel. I'm not saying I'm right, but my logic is that if the brass flexes as it heats and cools then the steel may rub a bit much against it. As for swapping the pins from mold to mold, I hope the cutter that milled the parts is exact enough to stay in spec. I haven't tried that. I may have to see how mine work out. But I have found the medium round pin to work for all my needs so far. I have no woodchucks that need 'sploding...

 

[Paul5388]

I use 4 cast bullet manuals, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition, Lyman 48th Edition, Lyman 49th Edition and the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1. I need to get the new Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition, but haven't so far.

I have some cast HPs that came out of Lyman Devastator molds, but usually don't use them. I don't use the Lee .44 HPs I cast either. I think a SWC or flat round nosed bullet does better on critters.

I cast most of my bullets out of air cooled 50/50 WWs and get a BHN of around 12. They won't lead up to 1750 fps, if they actually fit the bore properly. I only use gas checks on rifle bullets.

I use beeswax to lube the pivot points and alignment pins.

I use 3 lubes, White Label BAC, LLA and a JPW/LLA mix. What I use depends on whether I use a lube-sizer or not.