Help, bad trigger job and transplanted rear sight (?)

[PeteC]

Just took a new purchase to my friendly neighborhood gunsmith A couple things just did not seem right with the gun, including the rear sight assembly (see second pic) and the trigger, which seemed too light for a S&W revolver. Not an expert by any means though.

I am more of a shooter than a S&W collector, and not a gunsmith and my gunsmith is NOT primarily a S&W expert. We did NOT have time to do a careful trigger pull measurement.

His opinion of the rear sight assembly was that it came from a different gun, possibly a Highway Patrolman, or another gun with a smooth top strap.

My personal observations regarding the DA trigger was "weird", and the SA trigger as "light". His were more specific, and less printable (I think the words butchered, and something-monkey came up). He pronounced the SA trigger as dangerously light... so we took the grips off (all we had time for on Valentines Day evening), and found the ground down leaf spring shown below.

Checked the screw in the front strap and it is tight.

I don't have enough experience to know if this is a normal modification to lighten a DA trigger (??) which is the main point of this thread. Anything more than a quick once-over will be at my gunsmith's hourly fee. He is a nice guy, but as he occasionally reminds me, his kids need braces,

Pics were taken under shop lights, so not the best quality, but I can do better in daylight.

 

[tennexplorer]

It would help to know what model you have. From the photos, I'd guess a Model 14. Even without that information, the rear sight has been replaced. It is from a Model 28. From the last picture, it looks like the barrel pin has been removed, or at least attempted. I'd guess this is likely a parts gun.

The ground down spring is a modification that was made to lighten trigger pull back before custom springs became available - like 30 or more years ago.

 

[PeteC]

Just finished dinner when I started this thread, sorry. It is a Model 25-2, so quite possible that spring was ground down over 30 years ago.

edit: Just got my HP out, and it does look like a Model 28 smooth rear sight leaf and screw.

 

[Muley Gil]

IIRC, the M28 is the only revolver that has a smooth top adjustable rear sight.

 

[Protocall_Design]

It sounds like you haven't shot the gun yet. I would reserve judgement until you do. A light DA is very desirable in a shooting gun, but there are a few things that are helpful to know.

The SA trigger pull is mainly a function of what rebound spring is in the gun, assuming that the hammer and trigger sears are good. A nice SA pull would be in the 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 lb. range. Get a trigger pull gage if you don't have one. Lyman makes a nice mechanical one for around $24.

The DA pull is a combination of how much the mainspring is tensioned, and what rebound spring is in there. The primers that your ammo is loaded with, either factory or reloads, makes a huge difference in how light the trigger can be and still be reliable. Federal primers are the best of all, then Winchester, then Remington, with CCI being the hardest of the American ones. I don't know where the foreign ones rate for hardness.

I shoot a lot of matches, with all Federal primed reloads and all of my revos are "too light" for a S&W. Probably a lot lighter than yours.

Just because something isn't as it came from the factory, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Yours has had it's share of abuse, but it still might be a good shooter. At worst, all you would need to do is put in a new rebound and mainspring. The M28 rear sight is the same as the others, just without the grooves on top. Shoot and enjoy.

 

[stansdds]

It's definitely been messed with. Based on the impact marks around the barrel pin, do y'all want me to do another public service announcement about Bubba's Skool of Kitchun Table Gunsmithin?

 

[PeteC]

Pics taken in better light added. I've been to matches as a spectator, not a participant, although it has been a while. Is it normal to polish the case hardening off the sides of a trigger as part of a trigger job, or some other reason? Someone also commented about an odd scrape on the recoil shield which seems to align with the lower part of the extractor ratchet?

 

[OLDSTER]

Work performed at Bubbas Gun Shop LLC.

 

[Fullmetaljacket]

Why would you replace the rear sight assembly on a 25-2 with one from a HP? Maybe it got damaged while beating on the barrel pin? Lot's of red flags on this one but probably salvageable, depending on what you want to do with it. My .02.

 

[PeteC]

Why would you replace the rear sight assembly on a 25-2 with one from a HP? Maybe it got damaged while beating on the barrel pin? Lot's of red flags on this one but probably salvageable, depending on what you want to do with it. My .02.

From what I have learned here over the last couple years, and the opinion of my gunsmith, the gun was assembled from parts, on a distressed frame, and most of the damage happened while trying to fit the pieces. the barrel and the cylinder are both in great shape. The frame has nicks, slight pitting, and a stain on the left side behind the recoil shield (like blood or sweat that was not wiped off). He thinks the trigger was not polished for cosmetic reasons, but while trying to fit the parts. Same applies to the scrape on the recoil shield, the cylinder was not fitted correctly at first, and the extractor ratchet was scraping on the rear of the cylinder window. Ditto with the damage to the frame below the barrel pin. His comment was that "apparently the monkey with the hammer could not stop after missing the pin the first time".

 

[RWJ]

IIRC, the M28 is the only revolver that has a smooth top adjustable rear sight.

That, and the elusive Model 56.

 

[Muley Gil]

That, and the elusive Model 56.

Never seen a Model 56.

 

[stansdds]

From what I have learned here over the last couple years, and the opinion of my gunsmith, the gun was assembled from parts, on a distressed frame, and most of the damage happened while trying to fit the pieces. the barrel and the cylinder are both in great shape. The frame has nicks, slight pitting, and a stain on the left side behind the recoil shield (like blood or sweat that was not wiped off). He thinks the trigger was not polished for cosmetic reasons, but while trying to fit the parts. Same applies to the scrape on the recoil shield, the cylinder was not fitted correctly at first, and the extractor ratchet was scraping on the rear of the cylinder window. Ditto with the damage to the frame below the barrel pin. His comment was that "apparently the monkey with the hammer could not stop after missing the pin the first time".

Now, now! We here at Bubba's Skool of Kitchun Table Gunsmithin is proud of our gradjuites and not one gets a diploma until they reach tha level of trained monkey. A trained monkey does not give up after just one or two whacks, but they keep taken whacks at it til tha job is done.


Seriously now, I think your gunsmith is on to something here. Lots of issues with that revolver and it could be a case of being "assembled" outside of the factory.

 

[Hair Trigger]

IIRC, the M28 is the only revolver that has a smooth top adjustable rear sight.

Never seen a Model 56.

The M28 is the only N target frame with the smooth rear sight and barrel rib.

M56 is a K frame, 2" .38Spl. snub nose with a square butt. They were made for the USAF and most were reportedly destroyed by the government. 15,205 total made, 1962-63. They became the basis for the M15-2. This comes from SCSW, page 257.

 

[PeteC]

...
Seriously now, I think your gunsmith is on to something here. Lots of issues with that revolver and it could be a case of being "assembled" outside of the factory.

The gunsmith said that if a frame shows wear or abuse, but other parts don't they have probably been replaced, which makes sense to me.

Also, the recoil shield has "quite a scrape", but the extractor ratchet "looks fine". I think he is trying to tell me that the cylinder which is on the gun now, is not the one that made the scrape on the recoil shield?

I don't understand the next part so much, and my knowledge of S&W terminology is starting to run out...

He also said the hand appeared worn or intentionally "rounded off", and the timing on the installed cylinder may have been "early". I understand timing "late", a.k.a. failure to carry-up. Not sure what early would be.

I looked at the tip of the hand one can see both with trigger down, and at part travel today, and I am still not seeing anything. The timing seems ok to me on all chambers.

Tried taking pics again, does anyone see anything useful there?