Help! Date conflict, maybe

[JP@AK]

Okay. The first K frame .38 (and 32 WCF) hand ejector was the Model of 1899. So far, no controversy.
But the info I have is that the .38 Special cartridge was not introduced to the shooting public by S&W until 1902. If this is the case, the 1st Model should have been chambered for the .38 S&W not the Special. The Second Model (or Model of 1902) would be the first .38 Special.
But SCSW says otherwise. Was the First Model chambered for the .38 Special or not?
Thanks.
JP

 

[glowe]

According to both Jinks and Supica's books, the 38 Hand Ejector Military & Police First Model (Model 1899) was chambered in 38 Special. The Model 1899 introduced the cartridge and they were manufactured from 1899 to 1902, with 20,000 manufactured. There were a few made in 38 Long Colt as well.

 

[mikepriwer]

The non-Army contract 1899's either have no caliber marking, or
clearly say .38 S&W Special. I think, but am not sure, that the Army
contract guns have a two-line caliber marking, that specifies both
38 S&W Special and US Service Cartridge. This two-line marking may
also be on some non-Army 1899's.

Clearly, 38 Special was available.

Mike Priwer

 

[opoefc]

Yes, as Mike says, the two line caliber marking is seen on some commercial models, as well as the military contract guns. Just an example of S&W using up surplus parts. You can also encounter the two line caliber stampings on the 6 inch barrels of later Model 1902 S&Ws. Ed.

 

[Waidmann]

Were some not marked .38 MIL. ?

 

[cgt4570]

The non-Army contract 1899's either have no caliber marking, or
clearly say .38 S&W Special. I think, but am not sure, that the Army
contract guns have a two-line caliber marking, that specifies both
38 S&W Special and US Service Cartridge. This two-line marking may
also be on some non-Army 1899's.

Clearly, 38 Special was available.

Mike Priwer

The Army purchase models do not say .38 Special. The two line info was only on the later commercial guns.

 

[Oyeboteb]

Some say 'US Service Cartridge' meaning .38 Long Colt, but they also chambered and were implicitly meant for, the new .38 Special Cartridge.

.38 Special - if memory serve - was developed in 1897-1898, and was perfected for the intended Chambering of the Model 1899 M&P Revolver series.

Originally it was a Black Powder Cartridge, and, very soon was offered in Smokeless.

 

[pace40]

Were some not marked .38 MIL. ?

Yep

 

[H Richard]

Evidently early guns were properly marked 38 Special. Here's my 1899 commercial with the caliber clearly marked on the left side of the barrel.

 

[mikepriwer]

Well - guess I was wrong about the Military contract models. One line
it is.

Mike Priwe

 

[TripleLock]

The .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge is not listed in Winchester's Catalog No.64, dated August 1899, but is listed in their Catalog No.65, dated April 1900. This would seem to place the likely commercial introduction of the .38 Special cartridge in the last four months of 1899, maybe the early months of 1900.

FWIW, the listed available loadings from Winchester in 1900 were either 21 grains of black powder or an unspecified weight of smokeless, with a 158 grain lead round-nose bullet.

TL

 

[pff]

I have held in my hand (but didn't have the cash for dammit) an 1899 with S/N of 183. Commercial model shipped to Bekeart. I figure first weeks production?

Anyway, the letter stated it was shipped in .38 Special and it was so marked.

That 1902 origin date for the .38 Special has been repeated so many times it has a life of its own. But its wrong.


Regards,

Pat

 

[glowe]

The earliest ship date in the SWCA database is September 1899 for serial number 865. sn 225 was shipped in December 1899.