Help identifying engraver - Colt Python
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stunning piece!!!
That is one gorgeous Python you have. I am no expert of any kind but I did own a S&W Model 60 no dash that was very nicely engraved and I did some research into firearms engraving and the different styles and found some interesting points about my Model 60.
Mine had shipped to a Mr. Benjamin Shostle in Muncie Indiana. Mr. Shostle owned and operated his firearms engraving shop named "Gun Room Studios" out of the basement of his house. He was also the Founder and first President of FEGA (Firearms Engravers Guild of America).
His personal style was known as deep relief, hand carving consisting of floral scrolls and fine detail over dark matte background.
I've always thought that most privately engraved (outside of a factory) firearms were signed, name or initials, somewhere on the firearms proper, however like I said I am no expert at all in this field.
I suggest you go on the FEGA website for more info. Possibly also jump over on the Colt forum and maybe someone will recognize if it is a factory possibility.
Also....hopefully....there are some real true experts in this engraving arena on this Forum and maybe one or more will be along later today and chime in.
Have you removed those great grips and checked for initials or signature there?
Definitely a sweet handgun you have there....even if the cylinder rotates the wrong way.
That is one gorgeous Python you have. I am no expert of any kind but I did own a S&W Model 60 no dash that was very nicely engraved and I did some research into firearms engraving and the different styles and found some interesting points about my Model 60.
Mine had shipped to a Mr. Benjamin Shostle in Muncie Indiana. Mr. Shostle owned and operated his firearms engraving shop named "Gun Room Studios" out of the basement of his house. He was also the Founder and first President of FEGA (Firearms Engravers Guild of America).
His personal style was known as deep relief, hand carving consisting of floral scrolls and fine detail over dark matte background.
I've always thought that most privately engraved (outside of a factory) firearms were signed, name or initials, somewhere on the firearms proper, however like I said I am no expert at all in this field.
I suggest you go on the FEGA website for more info. Possibly also jump over on the Colt forum and maybe someone will recognize if it is a factory possibility.
Also....hopefully....there are some real true experts in this engraving arena on this Forum and maybe one or more will be along later today and chime in.
Have you removed those great grips and checked for initials or signature there?
Definitely a sweet handgun you have there....even if the cylinder rotates the wrong way.
Attachments
Some engravers like to hide their 'Mark'. Others plant it in plain view.
Some it's a cryptic sign of sorts. Or a play on their name using an object or figure and sometimes an initial (Angelo Bee comes to mind with his often used tiny caricature of a BumbleBee preceded by the capital letter A) . Others just their name plain and simple and then some just initials so you have to go searching again for the full name to match.
One place on the Colt hidden may be underneath the Thumb-latch.
There's generally an unengraved space there on both the Colt and the S&W and sometimes engravers place their mark there.
The S&W is easy to see by removing the screw and lifting off the Thumblatch.
The Colt you have to remove the sideplate completely. Then the Thumb piece will slide forward out of the plate (there is a small coil spring behind it as well).
Hardly a simple look&see situation and with no guarantee that anything is there, it' probably last on the list in the search.
Signitures/engravers marks can be incredibly small. Most any engraver works under magnification. 3x to 5x is common, or at least it used to be.
Now microscopic magnification is often used for detail work and signing you name on the tooth of an angry Grizz is not that difficult.
It's there, but w/o SOME enlargement, you can't usually see some of the detail work.
Wether that was done here, I don't know.
The work in general does not appear to have been done under hi magnification. The detail and careful cutting is just not there.
The overall layout of the pattern itself is pretty good. A couple places the engraver painted him/herself into a corner, but overall it's a good layout.
The cutting itself is rather quickly done with quite a few less than perfect scroll and arcs. The old 'knees and elbows' look as they say in the trade.
Kinks in the what should be smooth arcs and scrolls.
The engraver looks like he/she cut without moving much around the work, or did not move the work as they cut. Being static it's called.
That ends up giving you the small scroll ends that are supposed to be rounded ends being instead slightly pointed instead. They end up being cut in two pieces . One arc from 6 to 12 cw. Then finish the 'circle' up cutting a like arc 6 to 12 CCW. The bottom and the top generally never meet and form the perfect circle the pattern intends to be. Instead they form a peak at 6 and at 12.
The center line of the scroll also ends abruptly in te middle of those scrolls instead of rolling into a smaller and tighter curl.
You can see the line just start to curl and stop. The engraver's hand and wrist movement allowed them to cut that far and that was it.
Repositioning themselves and continuing the cut, or repositioning the work itself and doing the same would allow the curl to be completed.
Little things, but they take time. Little things but thats what makes the difference betw engraving and good engraving.
The 'shading' of the cuts was done with a Liner Tool.
Nothing wrong with that, a very common tool in engraving and used by many.
But the tool was used indifferently to make a shade cut here and there with little thought to actual shading of the leaves and vines that make up the scroll work of the pattern.
That's common for engravers to do early in their work. Some never get past that use of the liner.
Background is punch dot. A very common background technique. Some use it overlap style as here.
Some of the early engravers especially in the factory work like Colt and Winchester placed the tiny dots aside to each other. Touching eachother, but not overlapping eachother. Time consuming.
Some it's a cryptic sign of sorts. Or a play on their name using an object or figure and sometimes an initial (Angelo Bee comes to mind with his often used tiny caricature of a BumbleBee preceded by the capital letter A) . Others just their name plain and simple and then some just initials so you have to go searching again for the full name to match.
One place on the Colt hidden may be underneath the Thumb-latch.
There's generally an unengraved space there on both the Colt and the S&W and sometimes engravers place their mark there.
The S&W is easy to see by removing the screw and lifting off the Thumblatch.
The Colt you have to remove the sideplate completely. Then the Thumb piece will slide forward out of the plate (there is a small coil spring behind it as well).
Hardly a simple look&see situation and with no guarantee that anything is there, it' probably last on the list in the search.
Signitures/engravers marks can be incredibly small. Most any engraver works under magnification. 3x to 5x is common, or at least it used to be.
Now microscopic magnification is often used for detail work and signing you name on the tooth of an angry Grizz is not that difficult.
It's there, but w/o SOME enlargement, you can't usually see some of the detail work.
Wether that was done here, I don't know.
The work in general does not appear to have been done under hi magnification. The detail and careful cutting is just not there.
The overall layout of the pattern itself is pretty good. A couple places the engraver painted him/herself into a corner, but overall it's a good layout.
The cutting itself is rather quickly done with quite a few less than perfect scroll and arcs. The old 'knees and elbows' look as they say in the trade.
Kinks in the what should be smooth arcs and scrolls.
The engraver looks like he/she cut without moving much around the work, or did not move the work as they cut. Being static it's called.
That ends up giving you the small scroll ends that are supposed to be rounded ends being instead slightly pointed instead. They end up being cut in two pieces . One arc from 6 to 12 cw. Then finish the 'circle' up cutting a like arc 6 to 12 CCW. The bottom and the top generally never meet and form the perfect circle the pattern intends to be. Instead they form a peak at 6 and at 12.
The center line of the scroll also ends abruptly in te middle of those scrolls instead of rolling into a smaller and tighter curl.
You can see the line just start to curl and stop. The engraver's hand and wrist movement allowed them to cut that far and that was it.
Repositioning themselves and continuing the cut, or repositioning the work itself and doing the same would allow the curl to be completed.
Little things, but they take time. Little things but thats what makes the difference betw engraving and good engraving.
The 'shading' of the cuts was done with a Liner Tool.
Nothing wrong with that, a very common tool in engraving and used by many.
But the tool was used indifferently to make a shade cut here and there with little thought to actual shading of the leaves and vines that make up the scroll work of the pattern.
That's common for engravers to do early in their work. Some never get past that use of the liner.
Background is punch dot. A very common background technique. Some use it overlap style as here.
Some of the early engravers especially in the factory work like Colt and Winchester placed the tiny dots aside to each other. Touching eachother, but not overlapping eachother. Time consuming.
SnidelyWhiplash
Member
Not that I’m an expert…but I know enough that if the engraving was done by Colt prior to original shipping…a Colt Archives letter will specify so. It may not give the name of the engraver if done by a journeyman but a master engraver would be listed. That engraving certainly looks better than journeyman grade. The question is whether the work was done at Colt or aftermarket.
2152 is a very talented engraver and one of the great resources on this forum. I value his insights and thoughts on any of my engraved firearms and always appreciate him taking the time to share his wealth of knowledge and experience.
Thanks for sharing your engraved Python.
Based on the pattern and execution, the engraver is not one that I am familiar with.Good luck in unraveling the mystery of the engraver. An unfortunate challenge that we often face when engravers do not mark their work.
Depending on the year of the gun, it looks like it could very well have been done by Robert Kain of Canaan, CT. I met him in the early 90's, and was going to have him engrave a gun for me, but it did not work out.
He was a contract master engraver for many local firearms companies, especially colt
He was a contract master engraver for many local firearms companies, especially colt
I hadn't thought of Rob't. Kain as a possibility. But I think his scroll styles were very much different from the type on the OP's gun.
Not that he couldn't have cut a different style at a different time of course.
He cut an extremely deep style of scroll with the scroll itself being of a unique type in itself.
Even his 'classic' scroll style still differed from what most would call just that.
He was a a freelanser and what many would call a 'Money Engraver'. By the latter term meaning he was very comfortable taking on projects of many multiple pieces all cut with the same pattern. The repetition & boredom keeps most engravers from doing such work. He was not one of those. There are others. The money was there, just do the work,,thus the term.
Bill Mains was another but that type of work did get to him finally.
Bob Cain used to farm out some of work on those repetition projects to another Vermont engraver named Winston Churchhill. (Who has just recently passed away)
Usually hand lettering and game scene work if needed. Other specially work.
If Winston worked on the gun(s) they will be co-signed by both engravers.
Robert Cain always signed his work. Usually a capital R with the vertical bar extended upwards to form a 'cane'.
Winston Churchill, a relative unkn at the time co-signed the pieces he worked on with Bob Cain with simple initials of W.C.
Cain used Churchill to complete the 'Brace of 1000' 1970 commemorative sets for Marlin.
1000 sets each containing both a Model 336 and a Model 39.
He also used Churchill on some Colt SAA work done for the factory.
Not that he couldn't have cut a different style at a different time of course.
He cut an extremely deep style of scroll with the scroll itself being of a unique type in itself.
Even his 'classic' scroll style still differed from what most would call just that.
He was a a freelanser and what many would call a 'Money Engraver'. By the latter term meaning he was very comfortable taking on projects of many multiple pieces all cut with the same pattern. The repetition & boredom keeps most engravers from doing such work. He was not one of those. There are others. The money was there, just do the work,,thus the term.
Bill Mains was another but that type of work did get to him finally.
Bob Cain used to farm out some of work on those repetition projects to another Vermont engraver named Winston Churchhill. (Who has just recently passed away)
Usually hand lettering and game scene work if needed. Other specially work.
If Winston worked on the gun(s) they will be co-signed by both engravers.
Robert Cain always signed his work. Usually a capital R with the vertical bar extended upwards to form a 'cane'.
Winston Churchill, a relative unkn at the time co-signed the pieces he worked on with Bob Cain with simple initials of W.C.
Cain used Churchill to complete the 'Brace of 1000' 1970 commemorative sets for Marlin.
1000 sets each containing both a Model 336 and a Model 39.
He also used Churchill on some Colt SAA work done for the factory.
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