Help! Integral Scope Mount Rings?

handejector

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I need your help with the Integral Scope Mount S&W offered on the Mod 29 and Mod 629 in the 1980's-

Who made the rings?
Are they available now?
Do you have Pics of them?

THANKS! :D

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I need your help with the Integral Scope Mount S&W offered on the Mod 29 and Mod 629 in the 1980's-

Who made the rings?
Are they available now?
Do you have Pics of them?

THANKS! :D


Boss, taking into account the ":D" smilie, I'm honestly not sure if you're looking for help or showing off your latest acquisition, or maybe both.

In case you really are looking for help, an old thread here says Millet.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/198524-629-1-8-3-8-barrel-scope-mount.html
 
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I need your help with the Integral Scope Mount S&W offered on the Mod 29 and Mod 629 in the 1980's-

Who made the rings?
Are they available now?
Do you have Pics of them?
Lee,

Hillbilly's Correct...The Rings were originally outsourced from Millett...Below are a few photos...One being a set for a Model 29 in the Original Packaging as included with the Revolver..The others are what to look for when searching the Internet Sites!! I could only find the Blued Version in the Factory Millett Packaging...The Silver Version is a Stock Photo...Sorry!!

As far as current availability...I haven't seen any lately in the Original S&W Packaging...Although the Millett High Profile Angle-Loc's do show up on eBay with some regularity!!

The Model 29 Part No. is AL00012...The Model 629 Part No. is AL00912!!

I'll also offer this observation...In the past I did find there is a need for minor fitment at times in regards to how the lug on the underside of the Ring Base fits the channel running across the Barrel Rib likely due to variances in machining...Never found it to be a major problem...Hope this helps!!
 

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Lee,
I saw the 629 and 29 that you have up for sale on GB. Both are beautiful guns. I'd love to get my hands on the 29 model but I'm afraid that one will end up being a bit rich for my blood. I already own a 629-3 with the intregral scope mounts. I tried once to modify a set of Millets but found that by the time I filed away enough metal to make the ring fit there wasn't enough meat left and the bolt pulled through. :mad: BTW, where in the world do you find the unbelievable revolvers you put up for auction?
Here's a shot of mine.
Mark

 
According to an attachment that Masterpiece has provided, there are L and N frame bases. That had me wondering because the rail on the PC 686 doesn't look any different than the rail on the 629. So i tried them on the 629.. sure enough, they fit. When comparing them to the attachments above, the ones I have look to be shorter in height.
 

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I tried once to modify a set of Millets but found that by the time I filed away enough metal to make the ring fit there wasn't enough meat left and the bolt pulled through.
75Vette,

I'm curious about something...Were the Part Numbers of the Rings you mentioned above having such a problem with...The Same Part Numbers I noted to Lee he should look for??

Reason I ask...And I checked in My Notebooks just to make sure...Those are most definitely the Part Numbers of the Rings I used having relatively no problem mounting whatsoever!!

If so...I suppose there's an outside chance some sort of design change took place...Between the Mid-Late '90's & Present Day...From those I purchased back then because I had little trouble other than what I noted installing them at that time!!

And if that is the case...Lee, I do sincerely apologize for making it sound like it was as easy to modify them as I mentioned earlier...All I had to go on was my past experience!!
 
75Vette,

I'm curious about something...Were the Part Numbers of the Rings you mentioned above having such a problem with...The Same Part Numbers I noted to Lee he should look for??

Reason I ask...And I checked in My Notebooks just to make sure...Those are most definitely the Part Numbers of the Rings I used having relatively no problem mounting whatsoever!!

If so...I suppose there's an outside chance some sort of design change took place...Between the Mid-Late '90's & Present Day...From those I purchased back then because I had little trouble other than what I noted installing them at that time!!

And if that is the case...Lee, I do sincerely apologize for making it sound like it was as easy to modify them as I mentioned earlier...All I had to go on was my past experience!!

Masterpiece, I didn't mean to be misleading. The Millets I used were just similar to the ones you mentioned. Not the same part #s. The ones I filed on were on a clearance rack at Academy so I thought I'd give them a try. And I had to file a good bit. You probably do have the correct part #s for the rings used on the S&Ws.
 
Add'l Info!!

The Millets I used were just similar to the ones you mentioned. Not the same part #s. You probably do have the correct part #s for the rings used on the S&Ws.
75Vette,

Thanks for the reassurance I may have been correct...Appreciate It!!

Although after seeing the Photo below provided by a Member in the Thread Hillbilly posted...I'm beginning to have second thoughts myself that there very well may have been some sort of design change along the way if the Part No.(AL00912) was the same !!

Reason being...I don't recall the ones I used having a slot milled just above the foot of the base as can be seen in that photo...Hmmm!!
 

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The S&W revolvers made in the '80's with the "broached" barrel for scope rings will not accept a normal Weaver style ring. They require a special proprietary ring Millett made for S&W. Millett, of course, still makes Weaver rings today and those rings work well on S&W revolvers made for Weaver rings. Like jughed440's.

Millett's Weaver rings will not fit the old S&W broached style barrels. They look similar, but they're different. AFAIK they can't easily be made to work, either, since the fix requires adding metal, not taking it away (removing metal can't make them work). If someone has found a way to make them work, I'd like to know more about how it was done. I also don't know of any other any other ring manufacturer that makes (or ever made) a S&W ring.

The Smiths that had the barrel broached for scope rings (that I've seen) were all 8 3/8-inch guns made in the 1988-1989 time frame. They included:

M29-3 product code 101233.

M629-1 product code 103615.

M586-3 product code 103593.

M686-3 product code 104251.​

There were probably others I missed or I'm not aware of.
 
OK, now I'm scratching my head. My gun is clearly stamped 629-3 and a serial # BFB 075X under the crane. The same serial # is on the bottom of the butt too. I remember when I bought the gun wondering about what I was reading in the SCSW. Do I have a frank 'n' gun or were there some of these made in a dash 3? Or did the factory accidentally stamp mine 629-3?
 
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AFAIK they can't easily be made to work, either, since the fix requires adding metal, not taking it away (removing metal can't make them work). If someone has found a way to make them work, I'd like to know more about how it was done.

Kernel Crittenden,

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ in regards to what you mentioned about having to "Add" metal to make them work!!

To give you some idea as to why I'm disagreeing...If you take a close look at the Photo I posted by another Forum Member some years back in another similar thread...If the milled slot just above the Foot on the Base is how he was able to get his to fit...He certainly didn't "Add" metal...He "Removed" it!!

I have also contacted him asking if the Rings he used were the same Part No. I noted in My Earlier Post!! Hopefully he'll get back to me shortly as I'm very curious to know being the Rings I used years back...I had very little problem fitting...Had the Part No. I posted!! I'm still wondering if there may have been some changes made between then & present day!!
 
!!!~UPDATE~!!!

To All,

Given I was starting to have 2nd thoughts myself concerning the Smith & Wesson Rings outsourced from Millett I posted info about in My Original Post...I decided to do a little snooping & found that I was not losing it after all as I believe some of you may have been starting to think I was...Ha!!~Ha!!

Below are some photos I found...With relative ease...That sold recently on eBay!! Please make specific note one set is in Nickel Finish...Enjoy!!

By the way...I haven't received a response as yet to the PM I mentioned sending earlier regarding the modifications he made...Although if or when I do...I'll be sure to let you know ASAP!!
 

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Kernel Crittenden....I beg to differ....

No problem. I did see that picture and I wondered what was done to those rings to make them attach. It's an N-frame, presumably with a thicker top rib, maybe that's more accommodating.

It would of been nice to know what was actually done and how well they stood up to magnum recoil.

You can see in the pictures of the genuine S&W rings they are quit different from the Weaver ones. There's much more engagement in the "hooks" and they're much closer together.

As a side note, I'm not a big fan of this type of Millett ring in general. I used some in another application and wasn't impressed. I did like the fact that the design lets you "center" a scope left-to-right. That's a good feature. But it never felt like I could get them tight enough to the base. And even though they're made of steel, they seemed fragile, like they might break if they were over tightened. For the same money, there are better rings out there IMO.
 
THANKS to all of you. :D
A customer asked me about rings, and I did not know the answer!
 
It would of been nice to know what was actually done and how well they stood up to magnum recoil.

You can see in the pictures of the genuine S&W rings they are quit different from the Weaver ones. There's much more engagement in the "hooks" and they're much closer together.

Between the two...If someone plans on using their Revolver as a Shooter rather than a Collectible...I'd have to choose the Modified Angle-Locs Forum Member (jaymoore) machined to fit over the S&W Rings hands-down given there looks to be more bearing surface of the tab where it fits into the Broached Notch than there is when using those supplied by Millett to S&W for the 29 & 629 Models!!

Main reason being...That somewhat extended tab on Millett's S&W Rings was the weak point in their design...Having seen more than a few Snap or Split right where the Lower Tab angles straight into the Notch...With the Current Design that weak point is no longer there!!

Granted there is some machining needs to be done for the New Style to fit properly...Although to me it doesn't look to be as labor intensive to accomplish as one may think!!

I can't speak for any problems encountered when using the Millett/S&W Rings on the 586 & 686 Models given I've never had any hands-on experience with them!!
 
According to an attachment that Masterpiece has provided, there are L and N frame bases. That had me wondering because the rail on the PC 686 doesn't look any different than the rail on the 629. So i tried them on the 629.. sure enough, they fit. When comparing them to the attachments above, the ones I have look to be shorter in height.

The revolver you show in your post, whilst indeed being a 629 with integral scope ring cuts, it's not the same as the first version done circa 1989.

The first version was indeed non-standard, as the usual S&W rib wasn't wide enough to take Weaver rings. Apparently S&W had Millett do a special run. By the time I got around to ordering three sets, the corporate knowledge appears to have been lost, as they sent me regular old Millett rings, minus the Millett box. All they sent were the plastic pouches with the ring bits inside. Still have one set in the spares box, unopened. Haven't gotten photos, yet! Busy week.

So two sets got modded. And have served well since the late 1990s or thereabouts.

Oddly, on the odd occasion when one of the 29s shows up locally, it usually shows no sign of ever having worn the factory rings. Last one I saw had been drilled and tapped and was wearing a frame mount! Very sad. Have yet to observe another 629 with the early ring cuts.

BTW, if there was any broaching done it could have only been on the top slots. The four side cuts were milled with a dovetail cutter. Would have to guess the top slots were milled as well, but haven't pulled mine apart recent and couldn't tell you if they were slotted with a small end mill cutter, or, more likely, a couple of side milling cutters set in a horizontal mill's arbor so they could be done simultaneously.

Will try and post new photos in a day or three.

No scope cuts here:
2012-08-04jmoorestuff083.jpg

But it was in the handgun albums. Need to shoot it one day...

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All integral scope ring cut barrels, but the PC 629 on top is wider. What fits on it is too wide to tighten on the lower two.

2012-07-20smithstwojmoorestuff028.jpg

As noted above, the special run Milletts are narrower, so imagine the central post the width that would fall between the added milled slots. (The wings need a little narrowing , too, but I don't allow much play when the locks are tight because trying to adjust windage using the ring base screws can very easily distort the scope tube! Haven't needed to get much off optical center when dialing scopes in on these two revolvers, anyway. What was done during mounting the rings was to use a long 1" round bar in the scope's place to ensure everything lined up properly. After the rings were set on the barrel, the bar was removed and the scope put in it's place after lapping the bottom half of the rings to ensure perfect alignment and full contact.)
 
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We'll hopefully find out if the AL00912 rings fit soon. One left from a seller on ebay. (Only about the second or third time buying on that site! Oy.)
 
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We'll hopefully find out if the AL00912 rings fit soon.
jaymoore,

Not saying there isn't an ever so slight chance they "May"...With a high degree of certainty...I believe you're going to find the one's readily available "Present Day" will need modified in the same manner you did in the past for the reasons I mentioned in My PM to you...Just My Honest Opinion!!
 
jaymoore,

Not saying there isn't an ever so slight chance they "May"...With a high degree of certainty...I believe you're going to find the one's readily available "Present Day" will need modified in the same manner you did in the past for the reasons I mentioned in My PM to you...Just My Honest Opinion!!

Eh, at least they're silver colored. Have been needing another set of high rings anyway for some of the other revolvers. Been doing lots of long range cast bullet load testing lately for IHMSA use. Using a scope will help minimize some sighting errors.
 
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