Help me choose my first AR part II -- 2 M&Ps and 2 Colts

[email4eric]

I'm back again humbly seeking advice regarding my first AR. I've been reading a lot since I posted my previous thread and with more knowledge gained I now may be a little bit more focused.

Uses: mostly range (out to 250 yds); truck gun/logging road plinker; defense (should societal chaos/anarchy ever occur). This would not be my go-to weapon for interior home defense. I doubt I'll use it for hunting.

Preferences:

• I like quality construction/parts and good value (bang for the buck), good warranty
• $1K – ish price range
• Lighter is better -- I don't envision mounting anything beyond optics
• 16" free floating barrel 1/7 or 1/8 preferred
• Front fold-down sight (not the fixed A2 gas block/sight)
• Optics ready upper (I imagine iron sights being used for backup)
• Perhaps a pencil barrel
• Perhaps a mid-length gas system

I keep coming back to a couple of Colt and M&P models that incorporate a number of these elements but none have all of these features. It's the relative trade-offs I'm struggling with. Note that Pros/Cons I've listed are not absolutes – I'd love your opinion on them. The four ARs I keep coming back to are…

Colt LE6940 ($1300 street):

Colt LE 6940 at G and R Tactical

Pros: Quality/value. Has the monolithic upper with free floating 1/7 barrel and front folding sights. Ready for optics.

Cons: standard heavier barrel, carbine length gas system, highest price, slightly heavier at 6.7 lbs. May be hard to find.

Colt LE6720 ($800 street):

Colt AR6720 AR15-A4 Carbine Semi-Auto 223 Rem/5.56 NATO 16.1" 30+1 4-Position Stock Blk

Pros: Quality/value, lighter at 6.2 lbs. Pencil barrel 1/7, optics ready, lowest price.

Cons: Carbine length gas system, A2 non-folding front sights, non-free float barrel.

M&P15T ($950 street):

Product: ARCHIVE: Model M&P15T Rifle

Pros: Quality/value, free floating 1/8 5R melonite pencil barrel, folding front sights.

Cons: a little heavier at 6.8 lbs. Carbine length gas system, 4140 (rather than 4150) steel barrel. No longer in production – may be hard to find.

M&P15MOE-Mid ($900 street):

Product: Model M&P15 MOE Mid MAGPUL® SPEC SERIES

Pros: Quality/value, lightest at 6.5 lbs. complete Magpol MOE furniture, Mid-length gas system, 1/8 5R Melonite 4150 barrel.

Cons: A2 gas block front sights.

Please let me know your opinions on those differences that are most important vs least important. For example:

How much less of a distraction would the A2 gas block/sight be on a mid-length gas system rifle vs on a carbine length system? Would it be less "in the way?" Am I making a bigger deal out of the A2 sight than I should?

How important is 4140 vs 4150 steel?

Is the LE9640 $400 - $500 "better" than the others?

I've gravitated toward these primarily due to reputation, warranty, and value. I understand that I probably could build exactly the rifle I'm imagining but I'm unwilling to take on that project at this time.

Thanks up-front for all the input! I'm currently leaning toward the LE6940 followed by the M&P15T and M&P15 MOE-Mid (tied) with the 6720 bringing up the rear. Help sway me one way or the other!

 

[WA101]

Help me choose my first AR part II -- 2 M&Ps and 2 Colts

This is the view of the A2 front sight post on the MOE-Mid looking thru a scope at 1X.

The post disappears from the scope view at magnifications above 2X. The post doesn't bother me even when it is in view.

The last two digits in a 41xx series steel denotes the carbon content in hundreds of a percent. 4140 = 0.40% carbon and 4150 = 0.50% carbon. The higher carbon content in 4150 means the steel is slightly harder and a little more durable compared to 4140, but you're unlikely to notice the difference in practical use. I will say though, the barrel on the MOE-Mid is awesome, and capable of producing very tight groups.

If you haven't seen the TNP review of the MOE-Mid, you may want to check it out (Warning: It takes the reviewer 3-mins to get to the actual review, but it is a good review):

S&W M&P15 Magpul: FULL REVIEW {Thin Barrel AR-15) - YouTube

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Jgmp15]

The or variant has a receiver rail height front gas block, look into that one if you are planning on optics.

 

[email4eric]

If you haven't seen the TNP review of the MOE-Mid, you may want to check it out (Warning: It takes the reviewer 3-mins to get to the actual review, but it is a good review):

S&W M&P15 Magpul: FULL REVIEW {Thin Barrel AR-15) - YouTube

Good luck with your decision.

Yes! I saw that and it was the primary reason I included that rifle in the short list. It impressed me.

 

[email4eric]

The or variant has a receiver rail height front gas block, look into that one if you are planning on optics.

Yes, thanks. Isn't that simply a "T" without the sights?

 

[Fishinfool]

Might want to take a look at Rock River Arms. They offer a wide range of options and will build to your specs. I own a RRA ar-15, and a buddy shoots one of their .308 ar's. Both are well made and accurate. Most come with an accuracy guarantee.

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm

Larry

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Whether the A2 sight bothers you or not is something only you will be able to answer. If you read the Forum you'll see plenty of folks replacing the A2 front sight and handguard on Sports.

The general configuration of the 15T (folding front sight on handguard) is quite popular.

You mentioned weight as a consideration. I have a Yankee Hill Machine 7810 / 8810. Basically a 15T configuration with a lighter handguard and fluted barrel which comes in a quarter pound lighter than the 15T, including steel folding sights instead of the plastic MBUS on the 15T. You can find them for around $1k.

You mentioned gas systems as a consideration. I put a Syrac adjustable gas block on my YHM so I can adjust it to whatever I want.

Also, consider the diameter of the handguard. Quad rails can be a bit much to wrap you hand around. Round handguard with attachable rail sections and Keymod handguards are worthy of consideration.

Happy AR hunting.

 

[JaPes]

Uses: mostly range (out to 250 yds); truck gun/logging road plinker; defense (should societal chaos/anarchy ever occur). This would not be my go-to weapon for interior home defense. I doubt I'll use it for hunting.

Here's my 2¢ that cost me 325,000 X 2¢ to learn:

1. AR-15's are built on standardized dimensions.

2. For your 1st AR, buy a factory complete AR-15 from a well known, long established manufacturer that has the financial resources to fully back their warranty. Anyone can hand out a warranty, but not many can truly staff a customer support center and repair center for quick response time and repair turn around time.

3. Think of the AR-15 in your mind. Remember that image. Buy the rifle that closest fits that image, yet fits in your budget. Standard disclaimer: budget means available money after meeting all financial obligations including retirement savings.

4. Remember to make room in your budget for those additional items you'll need to run your AR-15. An example list:

• Rifle case / bag.
• Flexible rod cleaning kit.
• C.A.T. M4 cleaning tool. (you'll thank me later)
• Chamber brush
• Cleaning solvent / oil
• Extra magazines
• Ammunition

5. Learn to shoot the iron sights.

6. Because you're list of duties is defense of life, buy a red dot optic. At this point, I can recommend Aimpoint.

7. Remember your purpose of use is defense of life and the unlikely event of the breakdown of law and order. You could be forced to evacuate on foot. Keep your rifle as light as possible. Resist the urge to add on accessories for purely aesthetic reasons.

How much less of a distraction would the A2 gas block/sight be on a mid-length gas system rifle vs on a carbine length system? Would it be less "in the way?" Am I making a bigger deal out of the A2 sight than I should?

The A2 gas block front sight post system disappears when looking through a magnified optic. The annoyance can come when looking through an unmagnified red dot. Some people don't like the dot hovering (sometimes over) the front sight post.

If a low profile, foldable front sight is on your wish list buy a rifle that has it.

How important is 4140 vs 4150 steel?

For us civilians who don't have access to full auto or burst mode, not much. What does make the difference is barrel treatment. Since you're intention is SHTF, make sure the barrel is treated for enhanced corrosion resistance: salt bath nitriding or hard chrome lined.

 

[Scottrh2]

I have had many Colts and found all of them to be great rifles. I now own a SW MidMOE with the thin 1/8 5R barrel and really love it. I did float the barrel using a AGL 12" rail and it just got even better. My groups shrank and the rifle got lighter. The fixed front sight is gone and not missed either.

 

[sgtsandman]

Help me choose my first AR part II -- 2 M&Ps and 2 Colts

The only thing I can add to the above comments is the 1/8 barrels will be more flexible in ammunition choices.

1/7 is more for people looking to "reach out and touch someone" with heavier and longer bullets. The basement floor in bullet weight is about 55 gr.

There are plenty of 55gr and 62gr offerings out there, so it's not a limiting factor but if you want to shoot lighter bullets, you may have problems with them breaking up before they reach the target from spinning too fast. Emphasis on MAY.

The 1/8 barrels will still let you shoot bullets around 70-77 grain and maybe 79 if you are real lucky but it will be at the edge of the stability envelope. Depending on the barrel, 77gr may be pushing it. Every rifle is different.

Anyway, for what you are looking to use the rifle for, I would go 1/8, regardless of what brand you pick. It will be the most flexible.

 

[email4eric]

Might want to take a look at Rock River Arms. They offer a wide range of options and will build to your specs. I own a RRA ar-15, and a buddy shoots one of their .308 ar's. Both are well made and accurate. Most come with an accuracy guarantee.

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm

Larry

Thanks, Larry. RRA has a dizzying array of offerings!

 

[email4eric]

The general configuration of the 15T (folding front sight on handguard) is quite popular.

Also, consider the diameter of the handguard. Quad rails can be a bit much to wrap you hand around. Round handguard with attachable rail sections and Keymod handguards are worthy of consideration.

Happy AR hunting.

Thanks. I did a bunch more research on the quad rails that are involved with the LE6940 and the S&W T and OR models and think I'd be unhappy with the size/feel. I appreciate that you tipped me off to that.

 

[email4eric]

Here's my 2¢ that cost me 325,000 X 2¢ to learn:

1. AR-15's are built on standardized dimensions.

2. For your 1st AR, buy a factory complete AR-15 from a well known, long established manufacturer that has the financial resources to fully back their warranty. Anyone can hand out a warranty, but not many can truly staff a customer support center and repair center for quick response time and repair turn around time.

3. Think of the AR-15 in your mind. Remember that image. Buy the rifle that closest fits that image, yet fits in your budget. Standard disclaimer: budget means available money after meeting all financial obligations including retirement savings.

4. Remember to make room in your budget for those additional items you'll need to run your AR-15. An example list:

• Rifle case / bag.
• Flexible rod cleaning kit.
• C.A.T. M4 cleaning tool. (you'll thank me later)
• Chamber brush
• Cleaning solvent / oil
• Extra magazines
• Ammunition

5. Learn to shoot the iron sights.

6. Because you're list of duties is defense of life, buy a red dot optic. At this point, I can recommend Aimpoint.

7. Remember your purpose of use is defense of life and the unlikely event of the breakdown of law and order. You could be forced to evacuate on foot. Keep your rifle as light as possible. Resist the urge to add on accessories for purely aesthetic reasons.

The A2 gas block front sight post system disappears when looking through a magnified optic. The annoyance can come when looking through an unmagnified red dot. Some people don't like the dot hovering (sometimes over) the front sight post.

If a low profile, foldable front sight is on your wish list buy a rifle that has it.

For us civilians who don't have access to full auto or burst mode, not much. What does make the difference is barrel treatment. Since you're intention is SHTF, make sure the barrel is treated for enhanced corrosion resistance: salt bath nitriding or hard chrome lined.

Thanks for taking the time to post that, JaPes. I appreciate you boiling-down a great deal of experience.

I think any of the Colt LE or M&P offerings generally will meet the requirements you outline initially. As far as the folding front sight, it appears that they are only found on those models that use quad rails -- something I'm shying away from after doing a bunch more reading. So in terms of a Colt or S&W offering (greatly meeting your criteria of long established companies with good warranties), I'm finding I'll likely not find specifically what I'm looking for. As such, I'm looking at what pathway gets me where I want to go with the least upgrading needed.

If I were to revise my short list at this point (seeing that there likely will be some modification needed), it would be the LE 6920 (instead of the 6940) and the M&P 15 Magpul Mid.

I guess I'm making progress thanks to you guys!

 

[email4eric]

I have had many Colts and found all of them to be great rifles. I now own a SW MidMOE with the thin 1/8 5R barrel and really love it. I did float the barrel using a AGL 12" rail and it just got even better. My groups shrank and the rifle got lighter. The fixed front sight is gone and not missed either.

Scott, can you elaborate on your MidMOE modding? Did you put any front sight on after removing the A2 like in the Nutnfancy video? http://smith-wessonforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http://youtu.be/dX4BQl2nlek

Did you do the work yourself? Which ALG rail did you go with and have you attached anything else?

What are you using for sights?

Thanks -- good info.

 

[therewolf]

As far as ARs go, I'm a Colt fan, myself, and I personally

feel they have somewhat of a home court advantage over the

rest of the AR field. That said, I must agree there are better

ARs out there, if you spend proportionally more, I.E. you can't

fairly compare a Colt to a 2500$ base rifle. But I've never

found a S&W firearm which I felt was a bad value, and

I really like both of mine.

If you want all the things you like on one rifle, and there is

nothing already assembled like it on the market, you may

want to look into getting the AR armorer's blocks and

wrenches, perhaps a good manual or two, and mix and

match your own rifle. I would try to stay with one brand as

much as possible. Best of luck.

 

[snm8510]

+1 on the MOE Mid.
Love mine

 

[Bat Guano]

The 6720 is a nice handy little rifle. The A2 sight is a nonissue, as is the stock barrel. What almost every of these CAN use is a trigger upgrade. That and a good optic will do.

You can overthink this stuff. It's not a "relationship".

 

[email4eric]

The 6720 is a nice handy little rifle. The A2 sight is a nonissue, as is the stock barrel. What almost every of these CAN use is a trigger upgrade. That and a good optic will do.

You can overthink this stuff. It's not a "relationship".

HA! Yeah, you nailed it -- overthinking. Guilty as charged!

 

[Scottrh2]

Scott, can you elaborate on your MidMOE modding? Did you put any front sight on after removing the A2 like in the Nutnfancy video? http://smith-wessonforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http://youtu.be/dX4BQl2nlek

Did you do the work yourself? Which ALG rail did you go with and have you attached anything else?

What are you using for sights?

Thanks -- good info.

I used the AGL 12" V2 MLok version from Brownells and a low gas block from Sadlick also from Brownells. I ordered the Magpul action barrel tool for the work. Did everything my self after watching the video. Had to cut my front sight base off as one pin would not budge. Overall no problems at all. Reused my gas tube and roll pin. The rail is VERY secure and extremely well made and my barrel centers nicely.
Front sight on the short part of rail milled onto the tube is now a Magpul MBUS Pro. Small but very well made. I have a Magpul paraclip MLok sling loop on the tube as well both nothing else. Very light setup. I run a Aimpoint PRO as my main optic with a 50/200 zero.

Prior to the swap I needed 16 clicks of right windage and 12 clicks of down elevation using the factory provided sights to complete a military 25m zero. After the swap I now have 2 clicks right windage and 7 down for elevation at the same 25 meters. Prior to swap shooting 62 and 77 gr produced 2 very different points of impact so much so using the zero for one was making it hard to use the other. After swap I zeroed with 77gr SMK at 50 and confirmed at 200m shooting centermass targets...perfect. Loaded 62gr green tips and out to 300 I am now making good solid center mass shots using either round with my Aimpoint.

The only other thing I did to the rifle was get rid of the SW long *** flash hider and put a short A1 flash hider on it using the same crush washer.
My end result pleases me a lot and I am fully confident it it now as I have shot it with both rounds at full range. Everything is tight and centered and fits like a glove. The rifle runs wet or dry and seems to run well very dirty.
Would I do it again? YES. That AGL is one hell of a rail for anyone that does NOT want a bulky quad rail.

 

[email4eric]

Very helpful info, Scott -- thanks again for taking the time to spell out the details.