Help me ID what I am doing wrong

[SW CQB 45]

This is the NRA duty match (48 rounds) that I fired my M65 4" with factory Remington 158 lead RN. No stress of competitors, just me and the clock.

at the 15 yd line, I push two in the 9.

however at the 25 yd line, my grouping is left and this is off the barricade 6 rounds kneeling strong, 6 rounds standing left hand, 6 rounds standing right hand.

this was at 1300 hrs so the sun was over me and made it difficult to see my sights and somewhat limited with fixed sights. I did not blacken my sights...dont know why.

I sometimes feel my grip is too soft and have a tendancy to push my shots high, so I tightened my grip but I think the sights and barricade are causing me to push my follow through to the left.

any ideas or suggestion to move my shots over? thought about holding right?

I shoot a match where there is no barricade and I can use softer recoiling wadcutters. with the same gun, I do not drift to the left with those rounds and lack of barricade (all free hand)

OH and the 7........someone else must have shot my target! wait a minute, I was the lone shooter. I do not know when that happened, but one got away and it dont get no closer than a "0" YIKES!

link to bigger pic
Hunting Pictures - Copy_of_M65_Duty_Match_2_

 

[Culina]

Well, every single round is center or left of center, without changing the way you shoot, if you adjustage your windage to the right, I think you will get a slight score increase right there.

 

[SW CQB 45]

Kurac, I am wondering if the Remington Load is causing this.

because, my right and left hand barricade follow through will be different but yet it still drifts left.

and I was having to blink to get a clear front sight and that was with my shooting specs that I have zeroed by my eye doc.

???????

I may hold a tad right at 15 and a tad further at 25 if this continues.

 

[haggis]

CQB,

Sometimes, you can push the trigger to the left as well as back. I've found that if I allow my trigger finger to contact the trigger near my first knuckle instead of on the pad, I push my shots a bit to the left. That may or may not be your problem.

Buck

 

[SW CQB 45]

Buck, thanks 4 the input. Now that u mention it, I can feel a difference between right hand and left hand trigger squeeze and I may be pushing the trigger left with my right hand pull. This may be habit and did not realize I was doing it.

 

[DustyJacket]

get smaller grips.

I was shooting a 6" python in my second Academy and having similar issues. Got the tiny Colt grips and all of a sudden I was shooting 98% to 100%


Also:

 

[SW CQB 45]

I don't think grip size is the issue. I have 3x size hands and regularly rip the finger tips out of 2x gloves. I am at the first knuckle on my right hand and use the tip of my finger aas a stop on the frame when squeezing the trigger. I am know thinking these shots are my right hand. Thanks 4 that guide.

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

DustyJacket - SORRY BUT THAT CHART IS FOR ONE HANDED SHOOTING FOR A RIGHT HANDED PERSON, IT DOESN'T APPLY HERE.

SW CQB 45 -
1ST I SEE YOU ARE USING A .312 SMOOTH TRIGGER, WITH YOUR VERY LARGE HANDS DROP IN A .265 TRIGGER AND TRY THAT. THAT HAS BEEN KNOW TO HELP WITH THE LARGEST OF HANDS.
2ND YOU COULD USE A BABBIT BAR AND WHACK THE FRAME WHERE THE BARREL SCREWS INTO THE FRAME ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE TO SLIGHTLY BEND THE FRAME TO MOVE THE IMPACT TO THE RIGHT. THIS IS A VERY OLD SCHOOL TECHNIQUE BUT VERY EFFECTIVE.JP

 

[Model29Lover]

I would suggest less finger on the trigger for right hand shooting. Too much finger on the trigger moves rounds left for right hand shooting not the other way around. Moving the sights I would not recommend, that would be treating symptoms not the problem. Your shooting is better than most as is though, just some fine tuning!!!!

 

[SW CQB 45]

thanks PPC and Model29LVR

this gun will likely become a backup to my M15-5 whenever I get it tuned by Bob Jones.

I think my right trigger finger is pushing left instead of straight back. probably something I did not realize I was doing.

but why does it show up with duty type loads (left) and not in target wadcutter loads.

here is the same gun with 148 lead and 3.0 grains of 231 and this is all free hand April 2010 around 1300 hrs. different course of fire all the way back to the 25 yd line. could it be my follow through on the barricade shooting and my right hand trigger finger push is showing up with the barricade?

I have an explanation for shooting high. the sun was in my face and an older competitor once told me to aim at the top of the hole cluster at the X. with the sun affecting my vision, I probably aimed higher than I should also I have a tendancy to shoot low when time is a factor so alot of that was aiming to high at the 15 and 25.

here is the same gun, all free hand around 1000 hrs Aug/Sep/Oct 2009 (dont have that date handy), 5 to 25 yds 3.0 grns of 231 148 lead

 

[Model29Lover]

Ya, it probably was your follow through coupled with the old timers advice to aim high cause of the sun. The other target looks good, was that under time constraints? If so well done, if not well done. You definitely had good sight picture and sight alignment on most of those shots. I advise for you to shoot a target without using time, placing the trigger finger on the trigger first before hand placement and firing 10 or 20 rounds. Then do the same thing against time. Most tend to rush it and start messing their follow through up and jerking the trigger when shooting against time. Maybe your bad habits are forming when you shoot for time. So go back and forth and let your time be aweful, but still shoot against time and then with it, back and forth until your bad habits go away when you analyze them against taking your time!! Hope this helps man, happy shooting!!!!!

 

[SW CQB 45]

M29LVR....I think you hit the mark. it the timed events where I rush and follow through goes out the door.

yes, the 495/500 was timed. they let us shoot wadcutters in that match. I still got beat by a 496 by the ol timer!

I once shot a 498/500 with a 6" 586 in a match and it was a benefit so if you did not like your score, they would take your 8$ and you could re shoot. the ol timer...kept shooting (IIRC 5 times) till he shot a 499. I should have shot again, but took 2nd.

I need to focus on grip, trigger pull, and follow through to keep pushing them to the left. hey....I think those are marksmanship basics. hmmmm

 

[AzShooter]

Hold the gun tighter. Do not use the baracade for support. Keep looking at the front sight in the center of the X ring. Burry the sight there throughout your squeeze and when the shot goes off the bullets will land there.

Practice , practice, practice. Your last target looks great. If you can do it once you can do it again and again and again.

 

[MKT]

AZ Shooter,

In PPC the barracade is used for cover and support for both the right and left hand positions. Also, in the service gun and off-duty matches the barracade is used as stated above plus the kneeling position. If the zebras catch you not using the barracade for cover and support they'll dock you 60 points per position, so not using the barracade isn't an option.

 

[Jellybean]

Since it is happening with the factory ammo and not the powderpuff wadcutters, I'm guessing it's an improper grip/stance issue causing the increased recoil to show what the light recoiling ammo is hiding.

Not follow through because the real problem is occuring before you pull the trigger. To determine this, try to watch the barrel after the shot, or have someone else watch it for you, to see if the barrel is flipping, or recoiling, to the left and up instead of straight back and up.

You can also eliminate light/lighting problems or inherent accuracy problems to be sure it isn't shadowing on the sights or just where the ammo is going by shooting it off a bench in shade and then having someone else do the same to see if there is any difference.

 

[SW CQB 45]

thanks for the info JB.

just to follow up. I loaded 3.1 Bullseye behind an old 158 LSWC and shot the timed course by myself (meaning no one to my right or left and no one peering behind me) and utilized a countdown timer and the honor system to shoot the same unbarricaded course of fire that I will fire at a match next week.

This load definitely had more snap than 2.8 of Bullseye behind a 148 WC.

Four rounds pushed left. I do recall feeling at least one round go off when I was not ready. I am not able to call which one as I cannot see the holes at 25.

Up to the 15, I was all in the 10 or X using my Police Trade in fixed sight Model 65. I did smoke the sights and I was in the shade but the target was in the sun. Around 0900 hrs sun was behind me.

up to 15 yds

At the 25 (18 rounds from there and no barricade), I lined up my sights on the ragged hole in the X/10 and squeezed my shots.

I can shoot this revolver much better than my 1911 in the area accuracy.

finished target out to 25 yds

 

[toz]

[QUOTE/]I need to focus on grip, trigger pull, and follow through to keep pushing them to the left. hey....I think those are marksmanship basics. hmmmm[/QUOTE]

Yes, those are marksmanship basics. You're obviously pushing your shot left. The stress of rapid fire can do this to you. SIGHT ALIGNMENT, and a STRAIGHT BACK TRIGGER PULL - simple as that.

Go to the range and practice like musicians do: SLOW IS FAST. Instead of bangbangbangbangbang. Try bang.....bang.....bang.....bang.....bang. Concentrating on maintaining proper sight alignment and performing a straight back trigger pull. Pick up the speed as your results improve. - Bill

 

[Wayne Dobbs]

Mike,

Just remember that strong side light from the sun or other sources will cause you to "shoot to the light" so keep that factor strongly in mind. Also, the "white" sights on your M65 will make that happen even faster since they literally reflect the light unlike black sights. The fact that you're shooting centered groups with other loads at other times of the day (and therefore different lighting conditions) tends to confirm all the above.

Another factor, already mentioned, is that the fixed sight guns often don't shoot to POA and therefore need some babbit therapy or file work on sights to get them zeroed. If you can shoot the match with an adjustable sighted gun, that might be a better option.

Looks like you're shooting fundamentally well for the vast majority of your shots!

Wayne Dobbs

 

[SW CQB 45]

Howdy Wayne....good to hear from you.

I will finish out the season with the M65.

I plan to start fresh next year with either a 686 no dash 4" or a 15-5 4"

Shot a match today and 1000 hrs, the sun was in my face. Had to sink my ball cap down and heavy smoke the sights on the M65.

All the top competitors were off the mark today. Those who normally shot mid to high 490s were in the 480s today.

I shot a 489 corrected to 491 with a Eagle Eye (now I have to have one) and got third to a 494 and a 497.

at the 15, I had one high just in the 9 at 1130. at the 25 (18 shots) my grouping was left at 10-11 o'clock in the 9 ring. I had 8 shots in the 9 from the 25.

two ol'timers said the sun was plaguing everyone today and I should have corrected at the 25 yd line.

I told them....I can't see my group from the 25, how does one correct if you can see you holes? they told me the 15 yd should have been a clue. again, there was no real pattern at the 15, just swiss cheese in the X/10ring with one high in the 9.

I wear glasses corrected for a clear front sight, so the target it a blurr.

I will be shooting a adjustable sighted gun next year.

I could actually feel myself moving on a couple of shots at the 25...obvious with 9 out of the 10 ring

there is always next month.

 

[ms]

Calling your shots

thanks for the info JB.

Four rounds pushed left. I do recall feeling at least one round go off when I was not ready. I am not able to call which one as I cannot see the holes at 25.

If you don't immediaately know when you are off by this much, you're not watching your sights properly.