Help with dating Hi Power

[Toblerra]

I have a FN Hi Power that I need help with figuring out when it was manufactured. I tried figuring it out from the browning website as well as others and cannot find this particular number sequence preceded by a single letter anywhere. Any help is greatly appreciated!

The serial number on the grip frame is:

Z10017*

The serial number on the barrel shroud is the same but lacks the "Z"

Thanks!

 

[WVSig]

I have a FN Hi Power that I need help with figuring out when it was manufactured. I tried figuring it out from the browning website as well as others and cannot find this particular number sequence preceded by a single letter anywhere. Any help is greatly appreciated!

The serial number on the slide is:

Z10017*

The serial number on the barrel shroud is the same but lacks the "Z"

Thanks!

I believe that the gun has been restamped and the Z10017 is not the original or actual serial number. Browning/FN never used Z as the first letter of a serial number.

Need pics and more info to confirm. If you post pics or more info I can narrow it down for you.

 

[Camster]

The frame should be serial numbered in my non expert opinion.I've owned a few-the sort of number that you indicated,doesn't ring a bell with me.

 

[DWalt]

It's possible you might be able to gain some FN dating information here: http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

HP serial numbers are not always reliable indicators of manufacturing date. FN would sell a batch of HPs to some country and serial number them any way the customer wanted.

 

[Toblerra]

Here are some pics




I blurred out the serial number, but the number on the barrel is: 100170, the number on the frame is Z100170

 

[Toblerra]

It's possible you might be able to gain some FN dating information here: http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

HP serial numbers are not always reliable indicators of manufacturing date. FN would sell a batch of HPs to some country and serial number them any way the customer wanted.

The only Belgian proof Mark indicative of a date is a "K" with a star above it which, according to that website, dates it between 1929-1968 not exactly an exact birthday but it's a start.

 

[Watchdog]

The 100170 on the barrel would indicate 1961 according to the Browning site, but I have no idea why the Z is there.

What do the rollmarks/stampings on the right side of the frame in front of the serial number say? Ditto for the small stampings over the trigger guard on the left side.

Neat looking pistol, though. Wonder why someone polished off most of the finish? Prepping for refinishing maybe? And of course the grips are nowhere near original, and neither is the magazine.

I have a suspicion that it's an Israeli contract pistol. You might find an import stamp on it somewhere.

 

[Bill Bates]

It is post 1962. That is when Browning / FN switch to the external ejector.

I'm just guessing that we're missing some of the serial number. In 1976 Browning started using two letter date codes. "Z" is the letter equal to "1".

Normal placement for the serial number is one the front strap of the grip frame.

With the finish work or sanding done to that Hi-Power some of the serial number may be defaced.

Hi-Power Pistol

 

[Camster]

It is post 1962. That is when Browning / FN switch to the external ejector.

I'm just guessing that we're missing some of the serial number. In 1976 Browning started using two letter date codes. "Z" is the letter equal to "1".

Normal placement for the serial number is one the front strap of the grip frame.

With the finish work or sanding done to that Hi-Power some of the serial number may be defaced.

Hi-Power Pistol

The OP is now saying that he blurred the serial number and is only sharing the numbers indicated.These could simply be arsenal marks from who knows what foreign country..We've only gotten to the point of IDing it as post 62,because of the extractor.....Call the dentist.

 

[WVSig]

Here are some pics




I blurred out the serial number, but the number on the barrel is: 100170, the number on the frame is Z100170

Your serial number is 100170 which creates a few dating issues. First the Browning date info on their own site is flawed and they know it but do not correct it.

The other issue is that FN's documentation of dates and serial numbers is more of an art than science. They often used duplicate serial numbers for different contracts. On top of that FN never threw away parts and when they transitioned from one "model" or configuration to another they often used the older parts in newer configurations or even newer parts in older ones.

This is relevant to your pistol. The serial number 100170 would put it in the 1960-1961 range. The sights, small thumb safety and ring hammer are consistent with this date. From there is gets confusing.

The gun has an external extractor. The external extractor was introduced with other changes in 1962. I have seen internal extractors post 1962 but I have never seen an external extractor prior to 1962. So this leads me to believe that the slide is not original to the gun. The barrel and the frame maybe a match but the slide is not original IMHO.

If it is a surplus gun it was most likely a parts gun which was created because the original internal extractor slide failed. It could have cracked or the extractor might have gone and it was easier to use the frame and barrel with another slide vs getting the internal extractor.

The rollmarks on the slide are consistent with a FN gun of the 60s with the small half moon sights. There should be proof marks on the underside of the slide, which can be seen if you remove the slide. These might give us more info.

One other thing to note that the hammer has been cut. The bottom half has been removed it is no longer a complete ring. The hammer, trigger safety, extractor, mag release and barrel all look like they have been refinished. If I had to guess you or the prior owner refinished the small parts but did not get to the frame and the slide.

Did you strip the finish of the pistol or did you purchase it in that condition?

 

[WVSig]

It is post 1962. That is when Browning / FN switch to the external ejector.

I'm just guessing that we're missing some of the serial number. In 1976 Browning started using two letter date codes. "Z" is the letter equal to "1".

Normal placement for the serial number is one the front strap of the grip frame.

With the finish work or sanding done to that Hi-Power some of the serial number may be defaced.

Hi-Power Pistol

The rollmark on the slide is not MKII or MKIII rollmark. It is much earlier. FN did not start using the 2 letter date code until the MKII pistols. Also the sights would not be consistent with MKII and MKIII guns. Also early BHPs do not have serial numbers on the from strap of the grip. That started with two digit date guns which were C series guns. Again the Browning site is garbage. It has multiple errors and should not be used as a reference.

 

[sipowicz]

Finding out what day it was built on is going to be even rougher.

 

[Toblerra]

Sorry guys at work and haven't been able to check my post until now. The gun has been cerakoted in a battle worn finish, not by me I just bought it a week ago and have been trying to figure out its date of manufacture. When I get home I will post a close up of the Belgian barrel marks.

The existing serial number, though blurred in the photo is directly below the protruding slide stop pin on the right side of the pistol. I have already posted what they are.

 

[WVSig]

You might also want to post this over on the 1911 Forum in the BHP section. Some of the members there like Burgs and Submoa are very good at identifying and dating BHPs.

 

[Watchdog]

Your serial number is 100170 which creates a few dating issues...

A most excellent and informative post! I was going to say the same thing about the mismatched slide and frame, but figured I better keep quiet because I don't know enough about Hi-Powers to comment on them with any real authority.

The finish fooled me completely, too. There's a really talented gripmaker in Arizona who also antiques single action revolvers...except it isn't a finish he applies. He actually distresses and rusts the metal surfaces and the grips. The cerakote finish shown on this gun looks authentic enough to fool in photographs, but I doubt it'd hold up to close scrutiny in real life.

 

[Toblerra]

You can tell its cerakoted when you hold it. I will be sure to check the slide for serial numbers and proof marks when I get home. Thank you for the very informative post wvsig! I will update you when I get the info. and post it in this thread tonight. It does make sense that the slide is not original, the external extractor you mentioned is the anomaly as well as the "Z" prefix before the serial number on the frame, it looks like it was added later and is a different depth and space from the rest of the serial number, very odd.

 

[WVSig]

You can tell its cerakoted when you hold it. I will be sure to check the slide for serial numbers and proof marks when I get home. Thank you for the very informative post wvsig! I will update you when I get the info. and post it in this thread tonight. It does make sense that the slide is not original, the external extractor you mentioned is the anomaly as well as the "Z" prefix before the serial number on the frame, it looks like it was added later and is a different depth and space from the rest of the serial number, very odd.

It is not uncommon for the Israelis to "mark" pistols with number or letter in a addition to the serial number.

 

[Toblerra]

It is not uncommon for the Israelis to "mark" pistols with number or letter in a addition to the serial number.

I was mistaken in my original post and just corrected it. The serial number is on the right side of the grip frame just beneath the slide stop pin, (there is no serial number on the slide) see my unedited pic below. When I get home tonight I will disassemble it and check the inside of the slide for proof marks and update you.

 

[Toblerra]

So I cross posted this thread in the 1911 forum as someone here suggested and it turns out that the previous owner had the same question. I was referred to his previous link in the 1911 forum and this was their conclusion over there about 3 months ago...

It is a 1961 barrel and frame with a later 64-68 slide. It is a parts gun probably Israeli surplus. The Z prefix to the serial number was added later, probably by a military or police armory. It looks like the previous owner only had it for a couple months before selling it to me and it was the owner he purchased it from that had the cerakote finish done. Basically you were pretty much dead on WVSIG! Thanks again!

 

[WVSig]

So I cross posted this thread in the 1911 forum as someone here suggested and it turns out that the previous owner had the same question. I was referred to his previous link in the 1911 forum and this was their conclusion over there about 3 months ago...

It is a 1961 barrel and frame with a later 64-68 slide. It is a parts gun probably Israeli surplus. The Z prefix to the serial number was added later, probably by a military or police armory. It looks like the previous owner only had it for a couple months before selling it to me and it was the owner he purchased it from that had the cerakote finish done. Basically you were pretty much dead on WVSIG! Thanks again!

I am glad I could help!