help with remington model 11 rings

[crsides]

My former boss has an old Rem model 11, forerunner of the browning A5. It will fire low brass shells but not eject or feed the next round.

I haven't messed with the mod 11/ A5 friction ring setup much, getting most of my info off the internet. I do know I have the friction ring that moves from front to back in the correct position for low brass shells (next to the receiver, flat end toward the spring). I noticed the blued steel ring that sits on the brass fitting was bent out of shape, so ordered a new one.

Put it on and same results. I then pulled the new steel ring off, and it fired, ejected and feed the next round .... while pounding my shoulder. Recoil was extreme.

So what to do now? And do you oil the mag tube on these guns? I'm the guy at work that is suppose to know how to fix these things.

thanks for the help

Charlie

 

[Ματθιας]

Don't oil the tube. Some say that small amount of oil applied to a cloth and rubbed on the tube is OK, but even that tiny amount might be too much lube for the friction ring work properly.

You might want to replace all the springs along with the rings and go from there. I had to play with my set up until it worked properly.

 

[2152hq]

Put the (new) steel collar back on the brass/bronze friction piece.
That bronze friction piece has a front edge that has a heavy beveled edge on it. That goes toward the muzzle.

That bevel has a matching bevel inside the bbl ring. When the bbl recoils, the two beveled parts meet and the bronze collar collapses due to being sqeezed into the bevel of the bbl ring. That tightens it's grip on the mag tube and slows the motion down as the bbl recoils.

Adding the additional friction ring to the back side of the bronze collar (it has a very small matching bevel to the ring and the back side of the collar) adds aditional friction for so called High Brass loads when in that position.

The ring placed under the recoil spring and up against the recv'r is basicly taking it out of the picture and is a place to store it when shooting the LowBrass loads.

Some people have discovered that taking both the friction ring and the bronze collar off will allow the A5 and clones like the M11 to operate w/ the ultra light powder-puff type loads in many instances. But you are asking the recoil spring alone to absorb the energy.
That's prettymuch what happened when you fired it with the steel ring taken off of the bronz collar. It made the collar ineffective as a friction device and the recoil spring only was taking the recoil. Your shoulder felt it. The gun will suffer from extreme battering if shot much that way.
The M11 added a shock absorbing buffer inside the receiver wall at the back end to protect the frame. Remington felt it was needed even with the gun set up correctly.
It's rivited in place and Browning fans still doubt it's need. Remington thought it was a good idea. I'm no engineer,,I let other argue such things out.
I just know they are somewhat of a pain to change out when they get old and start to crumble from age and battering.

Try the set up again, paying close attention to the bevel(s) on the collar and ring. The mag tube should be smooth polished,,no rust or dents.
I always wiped them dry of any oil I had put on them and figured there was plenty still there for operation.
Take the recoil spring off and lay it on a table, roll it to see if it is straight. Look closely and see if it isn't kinked or bent. That will slow the recoil action down too.
Make sure the ends of the recoil spring are factory shaped,,smooth and clean. No 'adjustments' done that may make it out of round slightly or maybe even clipped a bit leaving a burr to scrape on the tube to slow it's action down.
About all I can think of right now.

 

[alwslate]

I guess i'm going against conventional wisdom but I have a couple of
older Browning A5s and I leave a light film of CLP on the mag tubes.
They function with 1oz loads without any excessive recoil.

 

[crsides]

Thanks, that's a great sticky if we were on the browning/Rem board.

Charlie

 

[chief38]

Charlie,
I own an A-5 for many years have worked on many of them and one Remington Model 11. The Remington while designed by the same person (J.M. Browning) is slightly different than the A-5 and DOES kick a heck of a lot more than the Browning version.

For starters you might want to replace the very old recoil spring and Friction Rings. Make SURE they are installed in the right order and position.

The magazine tube should be oiled with straight 30 weight non detergent motor oil and then wiped off leaving a very thin film behind. Most modern gun lubricants are way too thin and will allow the barrel to move too robustly. The Friction Rings were put there to retard this action, slow it down and tame recoil a bit. The thickness of the 30 weight oil applied in a very thin coat will allow a perfect working environment for the Friction Rings.

That said.........

I have always found that the Browning A-5 shotgun is a pleasure to shoot (if adjusted the way I described above) and the Remington M11 version is a "shoulder punisher". Kind of like twin sisters from different mothers........

 

[35Rem]

Since no one has asked, what is the actual load you are trying to get it to function with?
2152hq is pretty well spot on

Also, the action spring and tube may be pretty nasty and that may be slowing it down enough to cause the malfunction. This is the spring in the stock area that returns the bolt to battery.

 

[crsides]

1 1/8oz dove and quail loads. The spring and tube are clean. I have not oiled the tube at all as I had heard it should be dry. I am looking for a new spring and brass friction ring, but I only find used ones for sale. Not sure used from a 90 yr old gun is what I need. I will try a little lube and see how it functions.

Charlie

 

[35Rem]

The recoil spring and friction pieces can be browning made. But that's about it.