Hey S&W, I want an M&P 22 Pistol made here.

[kbm6893]

I love my M&P22. Feels quality to me, and other than the weight, it feels like the M&P 9 I held the other day. Walther is a good name, it's not like Lorcin, Jennings, or Hi-Point is making them. $350 for a high quality .22 with a lifetime warranty is fine by me. Mine even shoots Thunderbolts reliably.

 

[Dave686]

You guys make me laugh. You say I won't buy any gun made in Germany,China,India,Taiwan etc.Most of you drive foreign cars,watch tvs,and are posting on this forum with a computer made overseas.Pretty damn funny if it wasn't so sad.

You are correct; I can't buy everything made here. But the most important "stuff" in life; Cars, Motorcycles, Guns , and liquor; I can still buy American Made.

 

[Dave686]

Seems like it would be more expensive to have it built in Germany.

That's what I was thinking. I think it may have to do with the relationship between S&W and Walther. For a long time I have thought I would not be surprised to see "S&W acquires Walther". Not that I think it would be good for S&W, but Walther has been struggling.

 

[kris7047th]

I think the M&P22 will be a good seller for them. I have heard many good things about the M&P15 22.

I love ALL of mine .. AR15 and the .22 version for practice and fun. And then there is my M&P pistol collection

Cactus Jack .. you are SOooo correct. I have a Benelli Ultra Light SG that screams of *quality* and it shoots accordingly. I am guessing that it was more feasible/economical for S&W to contract out to have the .22 made by a company that has already established a high reputation instead of retooling, machining etc and the headaches of fixing. The M&P line is about quality and I suspect S&W base their decisions on maintaining that.

 

[kris7047th]

Seems like it would be more expensive to have it built in Germany.

Not always when it comes to complete machine set up and manning. Then there are all of the glitches that pop up too. It can take at least two years to ramp up, often more and time co$t$.

 

[kudzu3]

And we wonder why so many Americans can't find jobs.

 

[kris7047th]

And we wonder why so many Americans can't find jobs.

If the product costs outrageously due to the production costs here, they won't sell and people will STILL be out of jobs. The answer is developing .. promoting small businesses so that they can grow.

 

[Dave686]

If the product costs outrageously due to the production costs here, they won't sell and people will STILL be out of jobs. The answer is developing .. promoting small businesses so that they can grow.

As most every financial expert has said, our economy can't recover until our manufacturing base recovers. I want to vote to help American business both big and small grow so Americans will have good jobs, and I want to vote with my dollars; I couldn't care less about helping small business overseas.

Smith & Wesson is taking back the law enforcement market with the M&P because of its quality and the fact that it is all American Made right down to the magazines. American made has been a huge part of the decision in many Officers and Departments choice. The M&P line has been hugely successful for Smith & Wesson and they did it while holding the price line of foreign competitors.

Rebadging a foreign gun with an American name was greatly successful for Springfield in the private sector, but it didn't help them in the LEO market. I don't know how many times I've seen someone post that they bought a "Springfield" when talking about an XD.

I have stood by Smith & Wesson and bought their products for over 40 years. Sure it's because of their quality and their second to none customer support, but it's also because they are America Made.

I bought a Model 617 because I wanted a rim fire that was close to K & L frames for when I wanted some cheap trigger time. The 617 costs as much as the real deal. I would rather pay $500 for a rimfire .22 M&P (same cost as the centerfire) that was truly an M&P, instead of $360 for a cheap reproduction that was contracted out to a foreign company. Or at least if you are going to make a cheap knock off, make it here.

I know most big businesses don't listen to or care about what their customers say when they are paying big marketing firms to tell them what the customer wants. But S&W seems to listen to the customers, add what customers want, and even give them options other manufacturers tell their customers they don't need. That's why I started this thread; it just might start some discussion.

So Smith & Wesson…. Give us a .22 rimfire M&P made here. Many of us want to round out our M&P collections; but don't buy foreign. Oh and BTW release a few more big batches of the 40 Shields, because I can't get my hands on one.

Thanks,

 

[Nakanokalronin]

^

Hey, don't forget us who are still on waiting lists for the 9s.

 

[kris7047th]

I was talking about building small businesses HERE in the USA. I would bet that if S&W saw it more profitable to manufacture the .22 rimfire here in MA. they would have.

 

[catcus-jack]

Dave how many foreign made objects do you have in your house right now?Go through and throw out anything you own that is not made in the USA.See what you have left.We have no one to blame but ourselves,we are the ones who voted the politicians in who have allowed our factories and manufacturing jobs to move overseas.We have become a nation who was once a GREAT manufacturing force to a nation who would rather sit on the couch with their hi tech foreign made phones and play games.God Bless America whats left of it.

 

[PC Geek Shooter]

Well you could always wait for the Apex Tactical M&P 22lr conversion. That'd be made in the USA and you could use the same trigger as your current M&P. I'd pick your M&P with the Comp AEK system or the FSS & Trigger if you have them. Don't know if it'll work on the M&P Compacts though.

I've shot the M&P22 and the Sig 1911-22 along side each other and really liked the M&P22. I was more accurate with it, with both; I'd try to make the triggers a little bit better by myself.

I just sold my M&P9L and want to get a M&P9 full size but the 9mm accuracy issues are holding me back, only thing though. I really try to buy as much American made as I can, but it's not always possible. I agree that the M&P9 is superb in everything else though, M&P40/45 is great in all.

That's why I was just thinking of getting a M&P40 and get a 9mm conversion barrel to fix the 9mm accuracy issue (already have three 9mm mags) but then I read this below and am reconsidering the M&P40.

I will probably get the M&P9 from Grant at GandRTactical for $450 and spend $200 (with installation) on the oversized barrels that Storm Lake is sending only to him (custom fit to each slide) that

can shoot 1" and sub 1" groups in a rest out to 25 yards.

You shouldn't have to do that though, so I have also been thinking of a Glock G17 or G19 Gen4 which I don't want to do, but the accuracy issue pisses me off. Well it doesn't have to get 1" or even 1.5" from the factory, but it should get 1.75" maybe, but for sure 2.25" to 3" max. The M&P9 would be $100 more with the barrel than the Glock (if purchase online) and more accurate, but still $100 more is $100 more. It turns out that quality aftermarket product prices for the Glock really aren't that different from the M&P line (always hear prices much cheaper), like Apex FSS & Trigger and Glockworx Fulcrum ($150+).

Probably will get the M&P no matter what because of the American made aspect and S&W's customer service record. Plus I also want the Apex 22lr conversion, I assume it'll be even more accurate than the current M&P22. Assuming it's not too expensive, if it is then I probably will get the M&P22 though.

---

Forgot. Also want to get the M&P9 Shield some day, hear it's a very good gun and if need be can install some Apex parts. Also because it's American Made.

 

[kris7047th]

I have the Shield and had ATEi trigger job/sear which I prefer over Apex. I have a 4 lb trigger pull, shortened preset and fixed travel done locally in Taylor, Michigan USA

 

[retarmyaviator]

Don't care what country a firearm is made in as long as it is a quality product. My falling out with SIG was that their current crop of US made handguns failed to meet the quality of the older German made SIGs.

 

[S&W Rover]

When I visited the S&W factory in Springfield two summers ago, they had six modern CNC machines making the slides for the M&Ps. I think it is a time-honored practice in the gun industry to make a bunch of a given part, then stockpile them and assemble guns from the pieces. So I did not see any Sigmas or SDs being made that day, but they could be machined in a large batch at another time. I am guessing they have had some of those machines running the Shield work, with extra shifts! They also make revolvers in Springfield, with a huge stamping press and some really cool CNC machines to make the cylinders. I think springs and M&P frames are made by outside suppliers. They had a small old automatic lathe that has been making the pin in the S&W revolver sight from a reel of wire more or less continuously since 1948, two years before they moved it to the "new" factory in its current location. Other metal guns (e.g., Walthers and M1911s) are made in Houghton, Maine (I heard a rumor that they were moving new machines into the Houlton plant last year). It is pretty interesting stuff; I wish S&W would write up their manufacturing process and philosophy and add photos and put it on line. The plant was fantastic, and the people who worked for Smith were salt of the earth -- and American.

 

[kbm6893]

As most every financial expert has said, our economy can't recover until our manufacturing base recovers. I want to vote to help American business both big and small grow so Americans will have good jobs, and I want to vote with my dollars; I couldn't care less about helping small business overseas.

Smith & Wesson is taking back the law enforcement market with the M&P because of its quality and the fact that it is all American Made right down to the magazines. American made has been a huge part of the decision in many Officers and Departments choice. The M&P line has been hugely successful for Smith & Wesson and they did it while holding the price line of foreign competitors.

Rebadging a foreign gun with an American name was greatly successful for Springfield in the private sector, but it didn't help them in the LEO market. I don't know how many times I've seen someone post that they bought a "Springfield" when talking about an XD.

I have stood by Smith & Wesson and bought their products for over 40 years. Sure it's because of their quality and their second to none customer support, but it's also because they are America Made.

I bought a Model 617 because I wanted a rim fire that was close to K & L frames for when I wanted some cheap trigger time. The 617 costs as much as the real deal. I would rather pay $500 for a rimfire .22 M&P (same cost as the centerfire) that was truly an M&P, instead of $360 for a cheap reproduction that was contracted out to a foreign company. Or at least if you are going to make a cheap knock off, make it here.

I know most big businesses don't listen to or care about what their customers say when they are paying big marketing firms to tell them what the customer wants. But S&W seems to listen to the customers, add what customers want, and even give them options other manufacturers tell their customers they don't need. That's why I started this thread; it just might start some discussion.

So Smith & Wesson…. Give us a .22 rimfire M&P made here. Many of us want to round out our M&P collections; but don't buy foreign. Oh and BTW release a few more big batches of the 40 Shields, because I can't get my hands on one.

Thanks,

Nobody is going to pay $500 for a .22, unless it is a tricked out competiton gun. The M&P22 is an entry level, fun range gun and a great trainer for new shooters. Nobody is bringing one to a competition. If S&W charged the same for the M&P22 as they do for the M&P 9MM, the gun wouldn't sell. At the price they go for, they're in the same ballpark as the Browning Buckmark, Ruger 22/45, Beretta Neos, etc. I'd prefer the gun be made in America, too, but my patriotism doesn't go far enough to pay 50% more. Mortgage, car payments, and groceries are expensive.

 

[Dave686]

Nobody is going to pay $500 for a .22, unless it is a tricked out competiton gun.

If S&W charged the same for the M&P22 as they do for the M&P 9MM, the gun wouldn't sell.

Ever try to buy a 617? They sell like crazy because they are a full size K-frame in rimfire. They aren't tricked out competition guns and you won't find a new one for $500.

 

[McBear]

Dave how many foreign made objects do you have in your house right now?Go through and throw out anything you own that is not made in the USA.See what you have left.We have no one to blame but ourselves,we are the ones who voted the politicians in who have allowed our factories and manufacturing jobs to move overseas.We have become a nation who was once a GREAT manufacturing force to a nation who would rather sit on the couch with their hi tech foreign made phones and play games.God Bless America whats left of it.

Yes, we are to blame for jobs going offshore and outsources but...BUT...B.U.T...we really can't blame the politicians for this one. They didn't set policy that forced manufacturing offshore.

What about taxes...well, yeah, we have corporate taxes but most companies don't pay anywhere near the book rate...Many pay zero rate and some get money back. It's not tax rates.

What about environmental laws...yep, we have them. But their cost is factored into production, or the bad stuff [like plating] is offshored and the rest of the product can be manufactured here [if that is the only issue].

What about the unions. Well, they did build the standard of living we all enjoy...that weekend thing and 40 hour work weeks and overtime and...and the hourly rate at union shops even impacts non union shops. IBM famously has stayed non union by paying a good wage just to keep unions out of their manufacturing plants BUT they are all offshore now.

Then what is it...$0.17-$0.80/hr labor rates. In corporate board rooms [where I sometimes play] THAT is the number that counts. Cost of labor and cost of materials [which is defined by cost of labor]. And that is not based on any political or union or tax decision. It is based on "If I cut labor costs I will get a bigger bonus" and "If I increase profit margins by offshoring manufacturing or white collar or call center CNBC and WSJ will get off my *** about that 2.003% change in profits and I will retain my job as CEO"


What can we do...well, those manufacturing jobs won't come back as long as we buy stuff from big box stores that increase the Trade Deficit...stores like Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Sears...most of our socks, sockets, running shoes, tires...

And then there is the problem that we now have 312 million people and 154 million jobs and a global workforce trying to increase THEIR market share by selling us more inexpensive stuff. The decisions are not going to be easy...or inexpensive.

EDIT: Sorry...I write a bunch on this subject. Systems Analyst trait.