higher scope rings make a diffference

[Friedrice118]

Hi, im asking this question for a ruger 10 22 with an 18" barrel but the general question can apply to all scoped rifles.

Heres the, story I have a free outdoor range nearby and it goes from 50yrds to 100yrds. I have scope rings that allow me to look under the scope and use the regular sights making the scope sit higher up.

When I set it at 50 yards theres about a 3-4 inch drop at 100yrds. And set at 100 yards its 3-4 inches high.

My buddy has the same (used same ammo/targets i wanted my gun to be just like his) gun and i forget what rings he had and it would hit the bulls-eye at 50 yards and 100 yards with so little drop that if there was drop you couldnt tell if your aim is off or if it was drop.

for shorter distance shooting (50-100yrds) would it be better to use the scope rings that mount it as far down, closest to the barrel the mount will allow. I dont know the math but something tells met that the high up scope wouldnt line up as easy as one that is set at a closer angle the bullet is traveling in. especially in shorter range shooting i would thing the high up rings may even be better for 200-300 yards

 

[LVSteve]

There is some truth in what you say, but maybe a bigger issue is your cheek weld with the different ring heights. If you are uncomfortable with the gun that will ruin your accuracy.

 

[jkc]

It's always preferable to mount the scope as close to the bore as practical, for a couple of reasons, one having been mentioned by LV Steve. The greater the difference between line of sight and the bullet's trajectory, the greater the difficulty of finding a satisfactory "point blank" zero, a sight setting that will provide a point of impact acceptably close to point of aim. A scope zero'd at about 2" high at 50 yards shouldn't be more than about 2" low at closer and farther ranges out to 100 yards, with HV ammo.

 

[forresth]

those peep through rings are the worst things to stick on a gun that I can think of. Give me a pistol bayonet before those things.

I like my scopes nice and low. on 2 of my guns, I had to remove the irons, and on another, I had to do that and actually dremeled the rail to get it to clear with the super short rings and my 32mm objective. I still need to cut the front sight off that guns since it "co-witnesses" in the scope and makes the bottom half blurry.

your primary sight method should get the prime real-estate, not the back-up.

 

[KJM]

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[forresth]

If I had to guess, I'd say you are shouldering it "wrong"

 

[5-Shot]

The answer to all your questions can be found in one of the on line ballistics programs such as JBM ballistics. That program will allow you to input different sight heights and calculate what impact they have on apparent trajectory.

In general, higher sight heights "flatten" down range trajectories at the expense of larger sighting errors nearby. There's no free lunch.

By the way, I'm quite skeptical of your pal's rifle's ability to shoot point of aim at both 50 and 100 yards.

I agree with others here who advise on using a sight height that aligns the scope with your eye when you are holding the rifle properly rather than trying to customize the apparent trajectory.

Ed

 

[Smith357]

This is where you use mil-dots or your duplex to dope your .22 for distances. I have one rifle where on 5 power it's dead on at 50, and dead on at 100 where the duplex cross-hair gets fat. The other is on at 50 and the first mil-dot at 100, when turned down to 13 power. Find out where your rifle shoots and write the data down on a piece of tape on the scope.

 

[5-Shot]

Just for the heck of it I pulled out a ballistics program and ran some numbers. Perhaps they'll explain what I was trying to say in an earlier post. These numbers are based on data for a Federal 38 grain hollow point departing at 1280 feet/second and with a ballistic coefficient of .132. Assuming that all the different scope height arrangements are sighted dead on at 50 yards, the numbers () will be the bullet's location at 100, 120, 160 and 200 yards.

Scope height = .75 inches (-5.95", -10.5", -23.47" & -42.66")
Scope height = 1.5 inches (-5.2", -9.45", -21.82" & -40.41")
Scope height = 2.0 inches (-4.7", -6.57", -20.72", & -38.91")
Scope height = 4.0 inches (-2.7", -5.92", -16.32", & -32.92")

The numbers above make a high scope look pretty attractive but keep in mind that the higher your scope the more you will be off at short ranges...where most shots are taken.

I hope this helps some.

Ed

 

[KJM]

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[Friedrice118]

foresth- see through scope rings

Honestly ive been thinking the same thing, those peep holes will line up with the front sight but not the back (the back on my ruger is actually half way down the barrel and it flips up), plus, i feel naked without my side arm, its always on me so im set.


holding wrong

I am using a mounted bipod unlike my friends, but i didnt think it would be off so much, and the inconstancy is in height alone, not wind age. When we used my friends rifle we used a blanket to stabilize and set the scope. I found the the bipod was INCREDIBLY MORE steady. Now, a i holding this rifle like a pro,ive owned it 3 weeks, no (but when its balanced on a bipod and it hits the bullseye at the range i set it to EVERY TIME its not exactly rocket science when im talkin about a 22 at 50-100 yards when anyone with something to stabilize it can set a scope to it, but when i set it to 50 it hits a slightly smaller than a fist size bullseye every time, when its set to 100 it hits every time, but only when its set to that distance does it work.

 

[Friedrice118]

Smith357 on mil dots

First off great name, i carry a model 60 myself, whats your preference? I was looking into seeing if they made one of the SCOPE COVERS that i could put over my scope, or a sticker to put over my scope cover to look through those mil. dot sights, but i figure i should just go with a scope with the set in the right way.

 

[Friedrice118]

5 shot

The numbers above make a high scope look pretty attractive but keep in mind that the higher your scope the more you will be off at short ranges...where most shots are taken.

reply, Thanks man, when i thought of angles i figured a scope lining up flat as possible to the barrel would be good SPECIFICALLY at short range cause the higher up you go, the further the bullet has to travel to reach that flat line of the bullet (yea i know a bullet doesnt go completely flat but its a basic and accurate enough) estimation

 

[forresth]

....
By the way, I'm quite skeptical of your pal's rifle's ability to shoot point of aim at both 50 and 100 yards.
....

I'm not. An AR will generally be zeroed at 200 yards if it is zeroed at 50 yards. the bullet starts bellow the line of sight, then passes above the line of sight at 50, apexes, then crosses again at 200.

It seams reasonably that a 22lr might similarly be zeroed at 50 and 100 yards if it "lucked" into the right combination of scope heights and muzzle velocity.

 

[5-Shot]

Forresth,

Any rifle with the line of sight above the bore can be sighted to be on at two ranges. How far apart those two ranges are depend on velocity an ballistic coefficient. I'm pretty sure you can't get a 22 LR to zero at 50 and 100 yards with the sights in any reasonable location. Give it a try and report in if you can.

Ed