Hodgdon Clays is some clean powder

[SLT223]

Maybe it's just because I'm using so little of it?

Both powder puff range loads:
.357 Mag: DELETED under 158 plated SWC
.44 Mag: DELETED under 200gr plated SWC

Load data removed because there seems to be confusion about what powder I'm referencing. If you have some Hodgdon Clays {NOT UNIVERSAL CLAYS}, and want to load some super clean pistol rounds, check out this link:
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol


I just put about 150 rounds through a 6" 28-2, and couldn't see any fouling in the bore. For the heck of it I ran a brush to see if I could knock anything lose, and then ran a solvent patch. The patch hardly discolored at all.

My 3" 629 just gets an external wipe down. The bbl is so short I can clearly see there's nothing to wipe out of it after a session.

This is by landslide the cleanest pistol shooting I've experienced. I don't really care how dirty my guns get during shooting, I'm just shocked at how little fouling builds up from this powder.

I'm almost out of Clays, and from what I read I won't being seeing more anytime soon. Next up is Bullseye and Titegroup. Rumor has it all the patches I'll save during the Clays shooting will be used up during the Bullseye shooting.

 

[Black_Talon]

Try WW WST as a replacement. Or, if you don't mind spending a bit more per pound, VV N320. Both burn very clean with light loads and meter superbly.

 

[brucev]

Thank you for this post and the reply. I will be loading .357 and .44 Special ammo. Hopefully the Clays, WST and VV N320 will have application on these two cartridges. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[SLT223]

Try WW WST as a replacement. Or, if you don't mind spending a bit more per pound, VV N320. Both burn very clean with light loads and meter superbly.

There's almost no chance of me finding any of those two locally. I'd love to try every pistol powder there is but, I'm going to have to run what I can find. Right now I have 8# of Bullseye, and 8# of Titegroup...so'll be playing with those for sometime.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Alliant Clay Dot can be used as a direct replacement for Hodgdon Clays from what I've read. AA#2 is almost as fast as Clays and it's also very clean.

If you live near me I wouldn't mind lending you a pound.

 

[AveragEd]

Clays works quite well in all revolver target loads. I've used it in .38 Special, .38 Super, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and .45 ACP with good accuracy and as you discovered, clean hands after shooting. I have since gone to AutoComp in the 1911s and SR4756 in the revolvers but when the three pounds of 4756 I have are gone, I will be on the hunt for one of those powders mentioned above as it is no longer in production.

You definitely will use more cleaning supplies with TiteGroup and you should buy stock in the companies making them before you start using Bullseye. But they are good powders that will yield the target-level performance you seek.

Ed

 

[m657]

I'm liking what I see with some 'Universal Clays' and 45 acp for minimal fouling!

 

[SLT223]

Any news from Hodgdon when this powder will start shipping into the US again? I read the plant that makes it in Australia burned down.

 

[H Richard]

It is my understanding that all the versions of Clays won't be in production until late 2015, then they will have a lot of back-orders to fill before you will see it on the shelf. I only loaded Clays in (other that 12 ga) in .45 acp, and it took greater than 5.0 gr. before the groups got decent, and that was already past Major. I preferred WST or 231.

 

[AveragEd]

I'm liking what I see with some 'Universal Clays' and 45 acp for minimal fouling!

Clays Universal requires near-maximum charges to burn completely. It looks on paper like a do-all powder for handguns but when I tried it in revolver target loads, I got so much unburned powder that perhaps a dozen flakes were left in each fired casing and my hands, gun and the bench were covered with those little tan discs. One even got under my extractor star and prevented the cylinder from closing.

Hodgdon's advised me that Universal is not a good handgun powder unless you load it heavy as it needs a lot of heat-generating pressure to burn. It might work better in a 1911 but the opening of the rear of the combustion chamber as the slide moves might cause the same pressure drop as a revolver's barrel-cylinder gap.

Ed

 

[fredj338]

It is very clean burning but too spooky at the top end for me. I like predictable powders. As long as you stay well off the top end, it's a very nice bunnyfart powder. Moot point as it seems there won't be any around for quite a while.
My exp with Universal, it like higher pressures to burn completely & does offer good accuracy with plated or jacketed bullets, so-so with lead.

 

[SLT223]

Some of you guys muddied the water with this "Universal" talk. They are two different powders. To be clear to anyone reading this thread, I was talking about CLAYS, NOT Universal. Clays is faster than Universal.

 

[slickracer]

Clays Universal requires near-maximum charges to burn completely. It looks on paper like a do-all powder for handguns but when I tried it in revolver target loads, I got so much unburned powder that perhaps a dozen flakes were left in each fired casing and my hands, gun and the bench were covered with those little tan discs. One even got under my extractor star and prevented the cylinder from closing.

Hodgdon's advised me that Universal is not a good handgun powder unless you load it heavy as it needs a lot of heat-generating pressure to burn. It might work better in a 1911 but the opening of the rear of the combustion chamber as the slide moves might cause the same pressure drop as a revolver's barrel-cylinder gap.

Ed

Ed, thanks for posting this. I've had similar experiences with Universal but keep reading how clean if burns. The only clean burning load I've found is full power .357's. Everything else leaves unburned powder everywhere. I'll take Unique anyday over Universal.

 

[AveragEd]

As was pointed out, Clays and Clays Universal are entirely different powders, with Universal being a LOT slower-burning than Clays. There is a third Clays, Clays International, which is the slowest-burning of the three with a burning rate similar to IMR PB and Alliant Green Dot.

I've never used it but as its name suggests, Alliant's Clay Dot is supposed to be a twin to Hodgdon's Clays and shares the same loading data. Alliant powders tend to burn dirtier than Hodgdon's but you could try some to find out - it just might be a direct replacement for Clays in every way.

Ed

 

[rsrocket1]

There is a third Clays, Clays International, which is the slowest-burning of the three with a burning rate similar to IMR PB and Alliant Green Dot.

Ed

Not quite right. The Hodgdon "Clays" line of powders is made by ADI in Australia.
The burn order and equivalent is:

1. Clays = ADI AS30N
2. International Clays = ADI AP50N
2. Universal Clays = ADI AP70N

Clays is a bit faster than Red Dot, close to Clay Dot and I've found it to be equivalent to Hodgdon Titewad when loading by weight, not volume. Titewad has smaller flakes and is denser.

International Clays is between Red Dot and Unique, close to Alliant Green Dot in applications.

Universal Clays is Hodgdon's clone of Alliant Unique. Rumor is that someone at Alliant leaked the formula and now Hodgdon has the burn characteristics of one of the most versatile handgun powders around.

The ADI/Hodgdon powders based on the "Clays" technology are very clean and tend to burn completely even when loaded underpressured. My experience is that the underpressure loads are still smokey, but there are very few or no flakes left in the barrel. That's mostly important only in gas operated guns like my 1100 gas operated shotgun. In handguns, it's a non-issue. You're going to clean the gun anyway.

The downside of the Hodgdon "Clays" line of powders is price. They are a bit more expensive than their Alliant equivalents. However Titewad is their budget powder and is less expensive than even the Alliant mainstream powders (Promo is the exception).

The other disadvantage of the Clays line is that it's not being imported and hasn't been for over a year. The "plant fire" was in one of their powder drying facilities. Now that the powder is starting to be made in test runs, it looks like we'll get it here maybe next year (probably at the same time that Alliant powders start to be commonplace too ).

In the mean time, if you can find Red Dot, Clay Dot, Promo, Titewad or e3, you can make some good low recoil loads that won't turn your stainless revolver into a "blued" revolver in less than 50 shots. Bullseye will do that even at good pressure loads.


Oh well, at this time, even sooty powder is better than no powder.

 

[noshow]

38 Special 148gr HBWC Load

I have a Hornady bushing that throws 2.2gr of Clays and another that throws 2.45gr. Hogdon states 2.3 as a starting load. Will 2.2 be alright in terms of safety?
Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

 

[ggibson511960]

Universal Clays Joy & Sorrow

I use Universal Clays exclusively for small gauge shotguns. It is un-worldly how clean this stuff burns in a shotgun, probably because of the necessary loading density of shotshell recipes with no air space, despite the low pressures. I have run hundreds of skeet rounds through 20's and 28's without being able to tell they've been fired. I swear the stuff scrubs out the plastic wad residue in forcing cones and chokes. It burns like lighter fluid. I use it so much, it was inevitable that I would try it in handgun loads. I agree it compares favorably, at least in cleanliness, to Unique. Never tried Unique in a shotgun. Unique used to burn pretty dirty in my .45s but newer formulations seem to have cleaned up the mess. I will run out before they get that Australian dryer repaired and the supply chain refilled. I will miss it.