Holes in paper, holes in perps

[dennis51]

I've gotten fairly proficient at putting tight groupings in paper targets from 5-15 yards at the range. In a home defense situation, fear and adrenalin would probably offset aim, especially in the middle of the night. The one thing I do NOT want to have to worry about is stray rounds going through sheetrock walls into other rooms or neighbor's homes. Without starting a "show-to-discourage or shoot-to-kill" debate about weapons and attitudes, I'd like to get some opinions concerning shotshells or frangible rounds as effective alternate loads for a 9MM pistol.

PS If moderator decides I've put this post in the wrong section, I apologize in advance.

 

[dennis51]

I've gotten fairly proficient at putting tight groupings in paper targets from 5-15 yards at the range. In a home defense situation, fear and adrenalin would probably offset aim, especially in the middle of the night. The one thing I do NOT want to have to worry about is stray rounds going through sheetrock walls into other rooms or neighbor's homes. Without starting a "show-to-discourage or shoot-to-kill" debate about weapons and attitudes, I'd like to get some opinions concerning shotshells or frangible rounds as effective alternate loads for a 9MM pistol.

PS If moderator decides I've put this post in the wrong section, I apologize in advance.

 

[OKFC05]

I'm afraid you'll find that most anything that will penetrate a human effectively is also going to penetrate sheetrock.
Here's a link to actual tests of regular and "limited penetration" ammo:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/

 

[Wyatt Earp]

The solution to your problem is realistic self defense training under stress, such as force-on-force scenarios using simunitions or airsoft guns.

Something that will be out of energy after hitting sheetrock will be ineffective against a human adversary. Handgun ballistics are weak already compared to rifles and shotguns. Why on earth would you handicap yourself even more?

 

[GatorFarmer]

Shotshells are mainly useful if you are shooting snakes or vermin. They were never designed for use against humans. They can of course still be lethal. I remember reading about a case where someone was unlucky and had their heart perforated by the shot cup, however they are unlikely to stop a human attacker - pain compliance is not to be relied on.

Frangible ammunition tends to be problematic in terms of delivering sufficient penetration to reach vital organs. Those offerings that aren't problematic tend to still penetrate walls.

The expense of it also makes it a problem to verify that a given weapon will work well with it, let alone do any meaningful practice.

A 5.56mm carbine might solve some of your problems. Varmint loads, or even M193 type FMJ, tend to be surprisingly good about coming apart in walls. Long guns are also easier to hit with under stress. (If you go that route, remember to invest in hearing protection.)

If you can't afford FOF training - or find someone near you offering it - the low tech solution to simulate stress is to down a couple quad shot expressos before and run around a bit before shooting.

You can further make things interesting by having someone stand behind you and randomly whack you on the back of the head with a rolled up newspaper or magazine (I used to like Entertainment Weekly for giving just the right amount of "thwack" in terms of page numbers).

Oh and if anyone ever asks, you "shot to stop".

 

[flop-shank]

Use what you would on the street. A powerful hard hitting round is the best way to get an adversary stopped. The way to avoid overpenetration issues is with training, not special ammunition. Using special ammunition is trying to use different hardware to solve a software problem. Accurate gunfire is the key to a fast stop, and less rounds in the air to get the job done is the best way to avoid hitting innocents.

 

[Snowman366]

Originally posted by flop-shank:
Use what you would on the street. A powerful hard hitting round is the best way to get an adversary stopped. The way to avoid overpenetration issues is with training, not special ammunition. Accurate gunfire is the key to a fast stop, and less rounds in the air to get the job done is the best way to avoid hitting innocents.

A resounding Amen!

 

[f150guy]

In home defense situations, the perp already knows what he is going to do if the home owner catches him. A break in will likely happen at night, while you're asleep. He will be wide awake, adjusted to the lack of light. You will be startled out of a sleep, and your eyesight will take some time to adjust...
As said earlier, use what you would usually carry in the street. Shoot to stop, not to inflict pain, or scare them away. Chances are they are hopped up on drugs, and a weak, anti penetrating round will just piss them off, if they realize they've been shot...
You would need every advantage you can get on your side, because the cards are stacked against you from the start...

 

[dennis51]

Thanks for all the input! I am much better informed now, and will be prepared appropriately!