Home defense preparations.

[Cal44]

I recently took up shooting again after a 25 year hiatus when I got married and focused on making a living.

Now retired, I have time to shoot again.

Even when I was actively shooting, I my interests were confined to target shooting and a little reloading.

Self defense and home defense never entered into my thinking.

Well, now days I still live in a safe neighborhood with low crime.

And I'm still mostly interested in target shooting.

But one never knows, so I figured I'd make some preparations for home defense.

I am looking for comments and suggestions.

Right now all my guns are in a safe, but it's down stairs in a spare bedroom and has the knob type combination lock. It's not really suitable for home defense as it takes time to get into it, and it's not near where we sleep.

I need a new safe anyway as I've bought some new guns and the old safe is too small.

So I figured I'd get another safe and put it into the Master Bedroom closet -- much more accessible at night.

We do have young grandkids, so all guns need to be locked up at all times.

So here is my thinking:

1. I'll get a biometric safe, like a Barska, that opens based on fingerprints. Any comments on how well these work would be appreciated. It will be a smallish safe as getting a humongous gun safe upstairs seems nearly impossible.

2. My primary defense weapon, which I just bought today, will be a Mossberg 12 ga "security" shotgun -- 8 round pump.

3. As a backup, I figure on keeping a small pocket revolver like my M60 in the safe loaded with 38 sp standard pressure wad cutters.

4. The plan is to slip the revolver into a pocket when I grab the shotgun. If the shotgun jams or something, at least I have another option

I picked a shotgun in the hope that the 12 gauge will be intimidating enough that pointing it at an intruder will get him to turn around and bug out -- and I won't have to shoot. But if there is no choice, and I have to shoot, it's as effective as anything.

I recently joined the local gun club, and we have our own range, and I checked with the range office, and they allow practice with shotguns.

That's good because no way do I want a defense weapon I'm not familiar with, and practicing shooting a shotgun most places will attract unwanted attention.

I was thinking of loading the shotgun with number 5 shot rounds as I live in a typical sheetrock/stucco house in a suburban neighborhood -- and I don't want to endanger neighbors.

Any comments on the above welcome.

Dave

 

[Badkarma 1]

Hi Dave
First let me say your current plan is most forward thinking and intelligent!
I also applaud you for thinking about an upstairs easy access safe for your fighting weapons.
Noes the time to think about what if! First have a plan and a plan B. second make sure your wife is familiar with how these weapons work especially the shotgun, short stroking can be a problem. Also the idea of #5s is good but those still might get thru a wall. Since your range will allow you to practice, you might want to get a piece of similar wall structure and try it out.
Indoors the shotgun is devastating though!
As for the .38, load it with one of the better hollow point loads like the Speer 135gr. Short Barrel load. Wadcutters are good but HPs limit penetration, also have a reload handy for both!
As for a plan, get those grand kids into the equation! If you have an alarm on the house tell them if it goes off at night they are to run to your bedroom full tilt boogie! If you have to collect them, leave the long gun with your wife and take the handgun, it will be better to maneuver with. Also get a good BRIGHT flashlight, I recommend the Streamlight ProTac HL. 600 lumens with strobe and low power setting, runs off of 2 123A batteries and has a side clip.
Once you have everybody accounted for, bedroom door is locked STAY PUT! Police should be on the way, let them do the searching! If the intruders try to make entry then you fight!
Lastly check your locks and make sure there up to date and good dead bolts, and keep your bushes, trees, and hedges trimmed. And occasionally switch up your daily schedule and take a stroll about your property, let anybody watching know your watching as well. And keep aware of your neighborhood and its goings on. Dale

 

[Kanewpadle]

Get yourself one of these.

Made by American Security (AMSEC). They can be found for under $400. Digital quick access combination.

After you enter the combination you must move a lever to open the drawer. So you could leave it like that at night and then lock it in the morning.

Please don't buy budget brands such as Barska or Sentry. I've worked on those enough to know that whatever money you spend on them isn't worth it.

 

[gdnagle]

1. I'll get a biometric safe, like a Barska, that opens based on fingerprints. Any comments on how well these work would be appreciated. It will be a smallish safe as getting a humongous gun safe upstairs seems nearly impossible.

I have two Barska biometric lock boxes, they are not safes. new ones you can turn off the beep which is very loud. I haven't had a problem with them had them over two years. Word of caution put several finger prints in it preferably with the weak hand as a cut etc. will lead it to not work. After a shower or bath while your finger is wrinkled it won't open either. Make sure you have your wife put hers in also just in case. There are youtube videos where a toddler can open them, I haven't had anyone open mine without their prints being on file, if it's a concern keep a rag beside it and wipe after each use.

2. My primary defense weapon, which I just bought today, will be a Mossberg 12 ga "security" shotgun -- 8 round pump.

Make sure you break it in and your ammo will operate properly. Lots of discussion on type of ammo to use, anything but slugs will work in the house, remember you will be very close should anything occur so spread will be nil. Low recoil rounds if they work properly might be a good choice, or the 1 3/4" Aguila rounds where you will also be able to load almost twice as many rounds, not that you will need them. From Aguila "MOSSBERGS 500/590s will cycle minishells pretty well once the shooter acquires a "feeling" as to how to pump the action; however, this will not prevent the occasional jam" so if this is a concern just go with 2 3/4".

3. As a backup, I figure on keeping a small pocket revolver like my M60 in the safe loaded with 38 sp standard pressure wad cutters.

Always good to have a backup plan, remember if you pursue a bad guy, bad idea in some states as it could create problems, the first thing through any doorway will be the long barrel of the shotgun, so having a handgun at the ready is a good idea.

Dave

Disclaimer no connection with Barska and haven't had a problem with mine yet, and just my .02

 

[tlay]

All of the suggestions are good. Some other suggestions are, keep a cell phone and a land line phone near your bed. Do you have an alarm system on your house? If not they don't cost that much. At least get the ones that make a noise if the door is opened. Like someone said have a plan and rehearse it often, if you hear a noise in the middle of the night, who calls 911, who gets the gun and flashlight, where are you meeting?

 

[Rastoff]

The safe that Kanewpadle posted is the right way to go. A gun that isn't within arms reach when you need it might as well not be there. The time it will take to get out of bed, get to the closet, open the safe, get the gun out and then get the second one, is time that can cost you your life.

How old are the grand kids? I've discovered that education is the key. It's been a better "safe" for me than any mechanical device. If the kids know about the guns and can handle them safely and understand that they don't touch them without you being there, you're better off. Of course toddlers are another story altogether.

About your house. Where are the bedrooms? Are they all upstairs?

 

[Bkreutz]

foo gas around the perimeter.

 

[gdnagle]

How old are the grand kids? I've discovered that education is the key. It's been a better "safe" for me than any mechanical device. If the kids know about the guns and can handle them safely and understand that they don't touch them without you being there, you're better off. Of course toddlers are another story altogether.

That's good advice but it doesn't always work. I worked with a couple that had mid teenage boys. They took them hunting fishing shooting. One day they were home alone they decided to play with the M1 Carbine, sad story the one shot the other in the head by mistake I hope, and not on purpose. You also have to keep an eye on siblings and watch for signs of discontent.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Nice neighborhoods are the target of criminals.

 

[Cal44]

That's good advice but it doesn't always work. I worked with a couple that had mid teenage boys. They took them hunting fishing shooting. One day they were home alone they decided to play with the M1 Carbine, sad story the one shot the other in the head by mistake I hope, and not on purpose. You also have to keep an eye on siblings and watch for signs of discontent.

When I was 8 years old my dad taught me how to shoot and enrolled me in a NRA gun safety class.

So, by age 8 I knew how to check and unload rifles, revolvers, and I knew how to remove the magazine from a pistol. And I also knew that even with the magazine out, some pistols could fire the round in the chamber. And the class taught us how to rack the slide and remove the chambered round.

But this was the 1950's in Arizona, and not 2013 in California.

My grandkids parents don't own guns, and I doubt the kids have ever seen or handled a gun.

Most kids now days only know about guns from video games where after the game you can push reset and all the dead come back to life.

I wouldn't let my grand kids be around guns unless I was there. No one else in the family has any experience with them.

Our grandkids only come for about a total of three or four weeks per year over several visits, so during that time I plan to keep the guns locked up tight.

One of my concerns with the biometric fingerprint safes is just how prone are they to opening when they shouldn't? If three or four kids try all their fingers, what are the odds the safe opens -- even though it's programmed only with my prints?

I'd educate my grandkids on guns, but their parents would object so I figure I'll wait until they are 18.

Dave

 

[Rastoff]

Dave,
It's obvious that you have your head screwed on straight. My suggestion about training is just that and doesn't work for everyone. A safe removes any doubt.

I have no worries about my son due to training I've done with him, but he doesn't have the combination to the safe either.

I still think the under bed safe is a good way to go.

The thing about biometric locks is that they are not very good. I have opened biometric safes by lifting a fingerprint off a glass with scotch tape. I've also had the opposite problem where I couldn't get the lock open and had to go to the back up key. Sorry, but they're not my favorite. Nothing would be worse than needing your gun, having it within arms reach and not being able to get it because you couldn't open your own safe.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Dave,
It's obvious that you have your head screwed on straight. My suggestion about training is just that and doesn't work for everyone. A safe removes any doubt.

I have no worries about my son due to training I've done with him, but he doesn't have the combination to the safe either.

I still think the under bed safe is a good way to go.

The thing about biometric locks is that they are not very good. I have opened biometric safes by lifting a fingerprint off a glass with scotch tape. I've also had the opposite problem where I couldn't get the lock open and had to go to the back up key. Sorry, but they're not my favorite. Nothing would be worse than needing your gun, having it within arms reach and not being able to get it because you couldn't open your own safe.

We all know about the quality of electronics made in Taiwan/China. Terrible comes to mind.

As a previous poster mentioned, his biometric safe has worked well. But the problem is, that's how they start out. Great at first then nothing but problems. Biometrics has been around for a long time. The best American made biometric access system costs several thousand dollars or more. That's why you don't see it much. Instead you will see digital push button access or proximity card access.

From a professional view I highly suggest staying away from anything made overseas. I have helped many, many people that couldn't get to their guns when they needed them. And we have people bring their cheap store bought safes and pistols boxes into the store so we can get them open. Most often they cannot be repaired and parts are not available.

Spend a little more and save yourself some grief later.

PS. This not only applies to biometrics but any and every safe or pistol box made overseas.

 

[hangnoose]

HOME DEFENSE

I would think more along the lines of crime deterrence and prevention, so hopefully force would not be needed. safes are nice for storing collections but for a gun needed fast at 3am when you are groggy, no way. take them out at night if you don't already c/c 24/7 and lock them up again in the am. like outrunning a bear, you don't need a fortress, just something more difficult to break into than your neighbors. growing up our house had all the wrong things. burglars could come and go quietly and not worry about being seen. we had several attempts, 1 was successful with 5 people and 2 dogs at home. 1 dog was poisoned and the other closed in a room. nobody woke up or heard anything. the guy hit us and the 2 houses next to us the same night. motion detecting flood lights and loud alarms +1. you really do not want to fire a gun in your home even without kids. have a land line, and a cell near your bed call 911 give a quick statement,drop the phone, it will record events, and perform your drill as practiced. shoot as a last resort to protect a life only. an insured tv set is not worth shooting for, let them take it.

 

[Bugkiller99]

You are thinking ahead. One tool I would add would be a light. Best on shotgun, but at least immediately available.

 

[WR Moore]

About that safe neighborhood: I was once the intended victim of an armed robbery in front of a Federal Court House at 11:30 AM. Low probability, maybe. Safe? No such thing.

I work with high end biometric locks on a daily basis. I wouldn't choose consumer grade versions to control access to emergency equipment.

Now then, how fast can you-using the Chief Justice Roberts test (listen to the Heller vs DC tapes)-get out of bed and access your safe kept weapons? How far is it from a point of access to your bedroom assuming that attackers will be moving at 17 feet per second? You may want to re-evaluate locking up your firearms when the grandkids aren't underfoot.

Secondly, if your firearms are locked up in a second story bedroom, exactly what options do you have if you're downstairs when the front door gets kicked in? Do the 17 second math again. Something on the body is indicated.

Finally, shotguns didn't get their well earned reputation as predator eradicators with birdshot. Any projectile that will inflict serious bodily injury or death to an intruder will pass through drywall with sufficient energy to cause that SBI/death beyond the wall. On the other hand, it may, except at excessively close distance, fail to penetrate the chest cavity of an attacker. The difference is that while there are areas of the body that can cause death that aren't protected by bone, they aren't the areas that contain vital organs or structures that we need to target for defensive purposes.

The better shotgun solution is low recoil/tactical buckshot. #1 buck is the better choice, 00 will work. Evaluate your home to determine areas that may be no fire zones and practice sufficiently to hit your targets.