How do you control where the casings go?

[bassoneer]

My 1911 is back from the shop and is doing OK...had the barrel throated, along with a new ejector and full length guide rod. The guide rod was controversial (at best) on this forum, and I don't want to get that debate started again...let's just don't even go there. My question is about ejection of the spent shells. The old ejector was too short, and the new one (Wilson Combat) is a little longer. I told the gunsmith that the shells were coming straight back at my face and he said "I can get those shells to go just about anywhere you want them to go". Well, that little ejector installation cost over $100, and they still come straight back and hit me in the face. Do you think he replaced the right part? Is there something else that we should be doing to get the spent casings to fly out toward the right? This is a satin nickel Colt Combat Commander from 1974.

Thanks in advance, B

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

3 things to consider. It might need to be adjusted for the ammo you are using. Ammo is not the same. Case rims vary in size plus the different bullet energies of different loads.
Most shooters set up the gun to suit themselves depending on their load, bullet weight and grip on the gun. You should have the ejected brass land from five to ten feet away from your feet. If the brass falls on your feet, or fails to eject, you need a lighter spring. If the brass lands fifteen to twenty feet away, you need a heavier spring. It is always a good idea to have a replacement spring on hand.
2. Your extractor may need to be adjusted for the proper tension. Also check that the firing pin stop holds it tightly.
3. Lastly, your ejector might need to be adjusted or replaced, also check that it is tight in the frame.

 

[haggis]

This is hard to diagnose without the gun in hand. My best guess under these circumstances is that your extractor tension is too low. Higher tension will keep the case in contact with the slide a bit longer, and usually causes the case to eject lower to the right. However, too much tension will cause the gun to not feed well.

You can make a quick check to see if the tension is close. Disassemble the gun and remove the barrel. Slip a cartridge between the extractor claw and the breechface. It should hang there with the nose down a small amount. If you gently push the nose up to horizontal, the cartridge should fall out of the extractor. If it does, you can tighten the extractor tension until it just barely falls out. I wouldn't go any further than that.

Most people that describe this technique will caution you to use a dummy cartridge for this test. That's fine if you have one with the proper bullet in it - most testing dummies don't and won't work. I personally don't see any risk in using a live round for this, but it's your choice, not mine.


Buck

 

[Joni_Lynn]

On a 1911 with an internal extractor it could maybe use a bit more tension and there is a possibility that the firing pin stop is allowing the extractor to clock a bit which can alter ejection a bit.
I fixed one of mine that was trying to hit me in the forehead every shot by adding a bit more tension to the extractor.

 

[bassoneer]

When I was old enough to pay income tax, I had somebody tell me "you really need to figure out how to do your own taxes". I hate doing the tax return, but I know enough to get through it. I'm reading between the lines (here and other places) that if I'm going to own and shoot a 1911, I need to know what everything does. I've actually learned a lot over the last month by just trying to get mine to shoot reliably.

Well, I took the firing pin and extractor out and looked at them. Compared to a few photos from various web sites, and the extractor looks ok. I reassembled the slide pieces (pin, extractor) and tried the test mentioned above by Haggis. My question to Haggis...is the slide supposed to be horizontal or vertical (normal shooting position) to do this? I had the slide laying on it's side (horizontal) and inserted a cartridge between the extractor and the little recessed area on the opposite side of the casing. I could get it to stay in there by itself (horizontally, on it' side) but just barely. Should I be doing this test with the slide in the upright (normal shooting) position?

From other web sites, it sounds like an extractor problem, and maybe an ejector tuning issue. The casings shoot out at random locations. Might be straight up, might be straight back, may be slightly to the right...it's different every time. It has a brand new Wilson Combat extended ejecctor, and the front of the ejector (with the long pin) is in there tight, but the rear end (with the short pin) is loose and I can actually lift the ejector up a little bit. I don't know if that is normal, but I didn't expect that...I don't think the face of the ejector (where the casing hits) has been filed or "tuned" at all. The extractor seemed very stiff...I'm not sure how to tighten that...do you guys just bend it slightly by hand?

Thanks again for all the input and advice! B

 

[shovelwrench]

I'd have to agree with the others, probably extractor tension.

Heres Wilson Combats tuning guide.

 

[danski]

This from old time gun writer Dean Grennell:

Look at the extractor's bottom edge, that area between the body of the extractor and the hook. If it is perfectly square, lightly bevel the sharp edge (meaning just break the sharp edge) at the bottom.

This has worked for me.

 

[haggis]

bassoneer,

The slide is in its normal shooting position, horizontal with the slide rails at the bottom. Hold the slide above the table with your left hand, and insert the cartridge from the bottom with your right. If it hangs there, gently lift the bullet nose with your right index finger. you don't want your index finger to apply any force that holds the cartridge against the breechface. If the cartridge base easily slides from under the extractor you can add tension.

Remove the extractor and insert its base backward into its tunnel from the rear. This will hold it well enough that you can provide bending force from the front end of the extractor to bend it a little. Go slow! Bending too much is to be avoided if possible. Try the cartridge retain test again and repeat until the extractor firmly holds the cartridge but can be disengaged with very little force.

Once you think it's right, field test for ejection direction, ejection distance, and feeding reliability. The first two you can assess quickly - you probably need to run a hundred rounds through the gun to confirm feeding.


Buck

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

This from old time gun writer Dean Grennell:

Look at the extractor's bottom edge, that area between the body of the extractor and the hook. If it is perfectly square, lightly bevel the sharp edge (meaning just break the sharp edge) at the bottom.

This has worked for me.

So, are you saying that after you did this procedure the brass started flying consistently to the right, rather than straight back at your face?

I'm interested in this topic too, because this has always been my gripe with a 1911 for self defense. Every once in a while, I will get smacked in the face with brass, and almost no matter which 1911 I take to the range (I must have a dozen of them). Makes me think twice about carrying one for self-defense. Last thing you need when fighting for your life is hot brass in one of your eyes. I've taken to carrying revolvers for this reason.

 

[danski]

The Real Hawkeye,

Yes, it should help throw the brass to the right and possibly slightly back if the breaking of the edge is not too much.

Dean Grennell had the "in my face" problem and talked to a 1911 expert who told him to try it. It worked and it has worked for me on two 1911s when I owned such beasties. This info came from him in the 1980s.

As to the original poster's question regarding having the brass go where you want it, take a DA revolver, open cylinder, dump brass in hand and then place brass in a bucket or pocket. OK, OK, I'm being silly now.

 

[bassoneer]

As to the original poster's question regarding having the brass go where you want it, take a DA revolver, open cylinder, dump brass in hand and then place brass in a bucket or pocket. OK, OK, I'm being silly now.

Ha. No, you're not being silly. I am sitting on the fence right now about getting rid of all semi-autos and going strictly 100% revolver. I'm so close...I love my 686P and 638. If I could combine the two...I see where S&W has a titanium cylinder lightweight that holds 8 rounds of .357...that may be what I get if I can't get the kinks out of this Colt semi-auto. I'll try the extractor stuff over the next few days and get back with you guys on how it went. Thanks, B

 

[xcpd69]

....It has a brand new Wilson Combat extended ejecctor, and the front of the ejector (with the long pin) is in there tight, but the rear end (with the short pin) is loose and I can actually lift the ejector up a little bit. I don't know if that is normal, but I didn't expect that...I don't think the face of the ejector (where the casing hits) has been filed or "tuned" at all..... B

IF that ejector is not SOLIDLY held in place, there is your source of random ejection patterns. Once the ejector is FIRMLY in place, where your ejection pattern is consistant, you will have a better idea of the "tuning" of the ejector required to insure the ejection pattern is where you desire. (Hopefully at a location other than your head.)

Tuning of the ejector is done by beveling the face, where it strikes the case. This can be either horizontally, vertically or both. The exact location of the first point where the ejector strikes the case, will determine its trajectory, along with the tension of the extractor.

I would suggest you do a little more research, as there are numerous experts who can describe this process completely.

As for myself, I'm just an Armchair Commando and certainly no expert.
While I may understand the theory of brain surgery, this does NOT mean I'm competent to take up a knife and saw. LOL

 

[bassoneer]

I had a more experienced gun smith repair this. He tuned the ejector to make the casings spill out over my right shoulder and land about 4-5 feet away. He also tighted the extractor and did a little work on the recently throated barrel by polishing it a little better. He fed 40 rounds through the gun and he said that one casing hit the slide on the way out and came back over his head. He knew it hit the slide because he could hear it "ping" when they hit. He said I could either: a) have some work done on the slide to make the opening bigger and put some sort of flare thing on there like more modern guns, thus requiring the entire gun to need refinishing; or b) live with a casing coming out and potentially hitting me in the head every once in a while. Based on his recommendation, I opted for #2...I don't want to get so much $$ into this gun that it cost more than a new Wilson Combat. I plan to go try it out this weekend, but I think I've finally gotten this commander where I want it. B

 

[EMT Edu]

I have a recently purchased 1911 that I love to shoot but it throws brass all over. I thought it was just the "nature of the beast". Now I've got to figure out what you all just said and maybe fix the problem.

Thanks, I think...

 

[bassoneer]

I have a recently purchased 1911 that I love to shoot but it throws brass all over. I thought it was just the "nature of the beast". Now I've got to figure out what you all just said and maybe fix the problem.

Thanks, I think...

Basically there's not much to it, once you understand what each part does. By understanding it, that doesn't mean I would attempt doing anything to alter it...I'm just not a gun smith. I do have one bit of advice...the first gun smith I went to was very nice, and had years (and years and years) of experience. However, he is getting on up in years, has shaky hands and bad eyesight. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but when it came right down to it, I ended up getting somebody in their mid 50's to go behind him and clean things up. Just look for somebody, no matter how old, that has steady hands, good eyesight, and knows gunsmithing...not somebody who lays it all out on their kitchen table. Good luck, B