How do you use sand bags for pistol load testing

[flyrobb]

I have played around with different ways to rest my pistol with sand bags. Yesterday, by just resting my hands on the bag with a normal grip and barrel "free floating" and my forearms just touching the bench, seemed to be the steadiest and allowed me to get the best trigger press. Felt I got a pretty accurate load tests that way, although only at 10 yards.

Trying to rest the frame (barrel hood) was a not easy with my 4" G19 barrel and 3.5" 3913. Couldn't ever find a comfortable position. Bags just seemed to thick for that method. I have also read you should just rest your forearms on the bags but that didn't seem very steady either.

Anyway, just curious how you guys use bags and is 10 yards far enough for accurate load testing?

 

[otisrush]

When I got my pistol certification as an NRA Instructor we were taught to rest the wrists on the bag - so the hands and pistol are in front of the bags.

That being said, I haven't actually taught a Basic Pistol class since I got my certification - so I don't have the real-world feedback of what works and what doesn't when recommending to others what works best.

I don't recall the distance I shoot when I'm testing new loads - but it definitely is the closest distance our club has stands for - I think it's 15 ft.

OR

 

[Fishinfool]

Well, a couple methods that work for me. I usually get my best accuracy by resting my wrists on a bag, elbows on the bench (with padding underneath shooting heavy kickers), and the frame of the revolver or semi resting on another bag. Concentrate on sight alignment, and careful trigger squeeze. Better to have the gun / bags up high enough so you are sitting up pretty straight, as opposed to having to lean down to the gun.

Problem with that method is, especially with heavy kickers, that groups will usually print differently when fired off hand. Sometimes quite a bit. Does work well though for testing accuracy of the gun / ammo.

I usually sight in off bags without the gun toutching at all, just my forearms resting on bags. Not as accurate, but good enough, as that usually groups much closer to where I shoot off hand. After sighting in off the bags, I fine tune by shooting off hand at 25 yards. Sure groups wont be as tight as off bags, but the idea is to get the cluster centered on the target. Further practice then helps to shrink those clusters.

When people ask how to improve their handgun skills / accuracy, the best answer I have heard is to "load your gun. Take careful aim. squeeze the trigger. Repeat 1000 times..."

10 yards is a start, and depending on what gun you are shooting, and its intended use is, may be fine. But you wont see any real difference in load accuracy without stretching it out a little farther. Seen a lot of good shots at 7 and 10 yards fall apart at 25, where the fundamentals start to really come into play.

I do a lot of handgun hunting, so a lot of my shooting practice is based on this. A guy who is strictly interested in self defense with a compact carry gun could do a lot worse than just practicing speed and accuracy at 10 yards.

Larry

 

[ameridaddy]

I test the load like Fishinfool, wrists on a bag, start about 10 yds. to be sure I'm on paper, then move out to 25 where a difference in load group size and center of impact will start to appear, and it might really jump out at you. IMHO, it's hard to see a real difference at 10 yds if the gun is intrinsically accurate.
I once had a Mod 29 and a Mod 14 that were grouping ~2-1/2" to 3" at 25 yds, seemingly impervious to improvement no matter what load I tried, and all of a sudden - boom - magic!
I found the right combination that each liked and the group for each gun dropped to about 1.25" - 1.5". They were the loads I used for years to shoot matches.

I adjust the desired point of impact at 25 yds. - POI = POA for defense or plinking, offset from point of aim at 6 o'clock for bullseye, or establish a 50 or 100 yd zero for longer range shooting. Hornady has a nice on-line ballistic calculator for point of aim offsets to get longer range zeroes. Then if available, I move to a 50 or 100 yd range to verify the zeroes with that ammo in that gun.

 

[OKFC05]

I check new handguns and handloads incrementally out to 100 yds with only hands and wrists touching the rest. Any part of the gun touching it will throw the shot off.
Why test all the way to 100? Well, if your 9mm bullet hits sideways 2ft low and left, there is a problem. If you can hit a 2liter pop bottle by aiming at the cap at 100yds, you're pretty sure good to go at any lesser distance. The casual shooter would be shocked at how far a good hit on a full human silhouette is possible with a good gun/ammo, if the gun is sighted and fired correctly. An occasional target at 50yd in a USPSA match will separate those who practice at distance from those who never tried it.

 

[retiredbadge8091]

I like to nestle my wrists and the back edge of my hands into the bag. Then I generally fire single action. Remember this is for testing the accuracy of the gun and load.

Otherwise I fire double action as I was trained in the academy.

 

[DBenn]

I made this to zero my S&W 686 and 617 in at 25 yards and it worked well.

Can't blame the gun now.

 

[flyrobb]

...additionally, how many rounds is a good test?

Nice work DBenn!

I made this to zero my S&W 686 and 617 in at 25 yards and it worked well.

Can't blame the gun now.

Sounds like I'm on the right track with wrists on the bags. It felt comfortable too.

Next time out I will for sure try loads at 25 yards.

Also curious as to how many you load for an accuracy test of each charge? Is 5 rounds enough to get a good sampling?

 

[Drm50]

I'm not gotten a certified instructor certificate but I have been
sighting in handguns for over 50yrs. I "build" my sand bags to
fit the gun I am sighting in. Gun butt on a bag, front of frame
and barrel on bags. With revolvers cylinder blast will damage bags, so I use a piece of leather over bags. Elbows rest on bench.
You have to get in a position that puts the gun at same distance
from your eye, that it would be when shooting offhand.

 

[Wise_A]

I rest my wrist for chrono'ing.

For accuracy testing, I either don't particularly care for some guns, don't find resting relevant for others, or for the really good ones, I simply call the shots. If it shoots to call, then that's good enough.

If I were competing in something where inches made a difference at 25 or 50 yards, I'd invest in a Ransom Rest. But even there, I'd still test unsupported. What good is a load that Ransom's a tighter group, but for whatever reason, doesn't shoot as well in your hands? At the end of the day, all that matters is score.

Whether 10 yards is enough depends on the gun and the load. For something that's fairly accurate, you'll be able to spot truly terrible loads, but that's about it.

 

[Twoboxer]

I use [ame]https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Pistolero-Handgun-Shooting-Rest/dp/B000VJS4AS[/ame]and fire 5-round groups at a minimum of 10yds. One of the groups is either factory ammo (for a new pistol) or 5 rounds from the previous load (for a powder or batch change).

Relative recoil, ejection, and accuracy/precision are the criteria used to select the new load. Of course chrono data is very helpful if you can arrange to get it.

 

[Bob L]

I also rest my wrists on the bag and allow the handgun to float in front pf the bags. Anyway else that you handle it will not be the same when you are shooting in the field.

 

[keithherrington]

A picture is worth a 1000 words

Post removed due to Photobucket's new policy.

Keith

 

[OKFC05]

"Also curious as to how many you load for an accuracy test of each charge? Is 5 rounds enough to get a good sampling? "


Statistically, no, but practically it depends on what the group looks like. A nice round group, small or appropriate for the distance, is a great confidence builder. A sudden change of group from one distance to the next, or a group that looks more like a shotgun pattern, or stringing of the shots in any direction, bring on further shooting and maybe a check of your technique.

 

[H Richard]

If you are testing "the load" and not necessarily "your shooting", you need to rest the front of the pistol frame, (trigger guard and just in front of it). Don't rest the barrel or the grip on the bags. It usually takes 3 25 lb shot bags of sand, two on the base and one on top. Push steadily into the bag with the trigger guard, and this should eliminate any trigger jerks, wobbly aim, etc. Other than this use a Ransom Rest.

Hint: If you are using a revolver, cover the sandbag with a piece of leather, or some other flexible but dense material, as the B/C gap gasses will cut through the canvas bag within a couple shots. Making up sandbags, fine sand is one of the best, but heavy, I find old used corn cob tumbler media just about as good and about half the weight to pack around.

 

[flyrobb]

Yes, load testing is the goal of this post and I see your point. Not testing for competition shooting so the Ransom rest is not an option $$$$.

For shooting and trigger press I can see where wrist resting would make more sense.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Sand bags are nice , as any other rest that is fire retardant......

I just found if the receiver is forward of the "Material" ,
the rest last longer.

I blew up my rifle sand bags, of old shot bag material, in one
session at the range with the 357 magnum !!

Had more but it's the pain of getting fill and putting a lock on them.