How does S&W come up with model #'s?

[Cook74]

I can't see any rhyme or reason behind S&W model numbering. Is there a good source to read about how they determine the various models? I see the differences between K and J frames but the numbers don't make sense yet... Maybe I am too new to S&W's yet... So far we only have the 642...

Any help to learn more about S&W would be appreciated...

 

[murphydog]

Here is the best reference, apparently it is no longer available new:

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Cata...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293944738&sr=8-1

The numbering system with some early revolvers and later semi-autos can be figured out, but most are not logically assigned.

 

[A10]

Thought they started at 1............

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

like anything else to understand you have to know the whole history. Your 642 for example evolved as follows. The model 42 was originally the airweight centennial model. When Smith started to produce stainless guns they started with the 60's. Later on the number 6 was designated as stainless 5 was for carbon steel and the number 4 designated aluminum framed guns. The 6 and 4 later morphed into 6=silver not necessarily stainless and 4 designated blue or black (again not necessarily carbon steel). Ergo a 642 is a designation for an airweight centennial that is silver finished with the steel parts being stainless while the 442 is the same gun with black anodized aluminum and buled carbon steel parts. The 342 is the 442 with a titanium cylinder. 3 is a designation for super lightweight .
This makes perfect sense until you get to the 520 where in an effort to use the three digit ststem to wheel guns the 5 designated blue steel and the 20 represented the original designation for this particular gun, the Model 20 which was a .38 on a fixed sight N frame. Other guns that continued this were the 586-581-686-681 series only that there was never an original model 81 or 86. Ergo the stainless model 29 became a 629 but the blued steel 29 remained the 29 instead of being remaned 529 because it was still in production-To my knowlege there was no 529 ever made but eventually instead of using a 4 for the lightweight designation of the 29 Smith went with the three to avoid confusion, thus the airweight 29 became the 329. It logically followed that the alloy framed L frame and J frame are designated with a three digit number starting with a 3. SO a 317 designates a J frame in .22 because the model 17 is the designation of a K frame 22. The 3 is to designate that althoug this firearm is in .22 caliber it is on a J frame as opposed to a K frame which, if any existed would by designated a 417. Do not be confused if you see a 422 because that is an aluminum framed 22 semi auto that was made for a time.
It all made perfect sense until Smith produced an L frame 7 shor aluminum cylinder gun chambered in .357 and called it a 520. This caused much concern with us old guys because now we had 2 520's which could cause confusion hence the old 520's became known as NYSP 520's. The new 520's should have been designated 486+ but they weren't and subsequently dropped from the line. We now have the 386 which is what the new 520 should have been called in the first place.
I hope this clears up any confusion on your part but as you can see it all makes perfect sense.

 

[murphydog]

Thought they started at 1............

Yes, 1, 1 1/2, 2 and 3 made sense, small to larger...but no 4-9, and then it all went downhill from there logically .

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Yes, 1, 1 1/2, 2 and 3 made sense, small to larger...but no 4-9, and then it all went downhill from there logically .

Yea but then you would have a 1 1/2 dash 3,453

 

[Art Doc]

Not sure if anyone knows how they got started in 1957 when they decided to give them all numbers.

Sometimes they seem to have a pattern. The 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 & 19 are k frames. The 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 & 29 are N frames. The 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37... um... on up to 42 are small frame guns.

Then it falls apart. The 45 is a K frame. So is the 48. But the 49 is a j frame. The 53 is a K, the 56 is a J but the 58 is an N frame. Maybe they just had to pick numbers for new models.

As for the 520, it was released in 1980 before the 581 and 586 so I don't see a connection. No idea how they arrived at 520.

 

[da gimp]

Really there are 3 gnomes/pistol designers living in the sub sub basement deciding which numbers to assign.............. but do not blame them for the locks, they were off that day.......

 

[old bear]

S&W numbering system explained. The same sales weasel who sold every company is the world SAP, sold S&W a random number generating software program.

 

[Doug M.]

As for the 520, it was released in 1980 before the 581 and 586 so I don't see a connection. No idea how they arrived at 520.

*
I was under the impression that the 520 (the real one, not the L frame abomination) was relatively logical, as it was the successor to the M20, which had been the .38/44 HD before the number system arrived. The "5" just signified that it was a blue steel model.

 

[murphydog]

Not sure if anyone knows how they got started in 1957 when they decided to give them all numbers.

Sometimes they seem to have a pattern. The 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 & 19 are k frames. The 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 & 29 are N frames. The 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37... um... on up to 42 are small frame guns.

Then it falls apart. The 45 is a K frame. So is the 48. But the 49 is a j frame. The 53 is a K, the 56 is a J but the 58 is an N frame. Maybe they just had to pick numbers for new models.

As for the 520, it was released in 1980 before the 581 and 586 so I don't see a connection. No idea how they arrived at 520.

It all fits in a pattern as you state, sort of...except the 39, 41, 44 and 52, which were all semi-autos. Then you need the little wheely thingy for the 3rd generations to keep the four digits straight...

 

[handejector]

The straight facts-
When Model numbers began, Vanna White's grandmother worked at the factory. She suggested a big wheel that could be spun when a new model number was needed. There is now a huge wheel hidden in the factory basement with numbers up to 10000. She sold the idea on the sly to Merv Griffin, secured a career for Vanna, retired to Ft. Lauderdale, and the rest is history.....

 

[Göring's S&W]

My understanding was that after the model numbers were assigned, when it came time for the model 41, for example, it was then next number after 40, which did not have a model already assigned to it. So they have this 22 target auto, and the last in order number used was 40, so it became the 41.

Hmmm I just realized there was a pre model 42, so that would throw that off UNLESS the number 41 was reserved for the early prototype models, before the 41 was introduced. Maybe they called the 41, the "41 project" years before it was even released.

It seems to be, in general, as the numbers go up, esp past the 30s, the earlier the number, the earlier the model, and so on, and so forth.

 

[Skeptic 9c]

The system is closely related to the number of stars on the Playboy (TM) cover.
Geoff
Who is old, gray, bitter and cynical today.

 

[Armyphotog]

I"m confused. Can we change the subject?

I Personally thought they put the numbers in a hat and drew one when the occasion presented itself.

 

[A10]

I"m confused. Can we change the subject?

I Personally thought they put the numbers in a hat and drew one when the occasion presented itself.

Does that mean they are likely to come up with a Model 7 3/8 soon?

 

[jcelect]

Confussseed

I have read all the above explantions and I have a couple questions! Where did they find the model numbers for the 547 and the 647? ? ? Remember these guns were pre Scandamnium(or what ever metal it is) they use for the feather weight guns! ? !
jcelect

 

[Cook74]

Thanks guys, my head hurts now... To some degree, it all makes sense. I would bet that new management sometime during the years of S&W production wanted his own numbering system along the way. Otherwise, I could see a logical progression until they run out of numbers. I would think it would have made more sense if they went to a number-letter system to designate the follow on guns in each category.
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So, if one had the opportunity to either start over or begin from here on, what system would you decide on?