How long will a Les Baer 1911 last?

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Daimler1989

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Hi from Germany,

I own a LB 1911 Premier I .45 ACP, built on a Caspian frame, for about 8 years now. Bought it new from old stock, obviously one of only a few Premier I that came to Germany around 1994/95. The gun came with fixed sights, front sight pinned, no beavertail and standard spur hammer. Shot dead straight POA at 25 meters and won me a lot of target competitions since then. It has about 15000 rounds until now.

So when compared to my wife's LB Premier II (made in the late 90's) on a Baer frame (Illinois), the slide has developed some play: You can tilt the slide lateral noticeably. Which my wife's LB doesn't. I'm not quite sure if the plateral play has an effect on accuracy, but for the last 2 years, my bullseye results were not as good as they used to be (compared to my SIG 210 9mm, with which my results are as good as ever). Do I have to worry about the LB's durability? Maybe consider a refurbishment?

Any hints welcome

regards from Germany
Ulrich
 
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The slide rails can be tightened by a competent 1911 gunsmith. Have the gunsmith check tightness of barrel bushing and replace other worn parts. I suspect with proper maintenance your Les Baer will be around longe than you.
 
15,000 rounds to a rebuild is not bad. It sounds as though there is nothing terminal about the gun's condition (cracked frame, shot out barrel, the bubonic plague ;)), just needs a refresh.
 
Durability should be fine for a long long long time. Accuracy however will degrade. Barrel may need to be replaced. Possibly bushing. How are the locking lugs? The side to side play shouldn't make that much of a difference but it can add to an already bad barrel. Of course this is speaking only from what you described without actually seeing and feeling the gun.

You can't really compare it to the Sig. A much different design. Sigs have rails that run the full length of the gun without and breakage/stoppage and the slide rides inside the frame.

At 15k rounds parts start to wear out. They don't necessarily brake and maybe fine for a long time but if you have a set standard....that may suffer. 1911 is a very old design and requires more maintenance


I'll try to find a topic in another forum where that specific 1911 has had over 150k rounds

50,000 (now 88K) rounds and counting: Springfield Operator

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thanks everyone

in a closer look to some points mentioned: There is no play at the bushing, no play of the barrel in battery, edges of the locking lugs are sharp. Borehole of slide stop is a VERY little bit enlarged on left side of the frame. The barrel looks good with sharp lands (I mostly shoot copper plated lead bullets). So far only the slide-to-frame-fit seems to show wear. What can a gunsmith do about that?

regards
Ulrich
 
I don't own a LB 1911 however many of my Fellow Club Members do. I shoot with them often and have also shot some of their LB's. I have never seen one "wear out". I own a bunch of 1911's (Colt's, not LB's) and have tens of thousands of rounds through them - never a problem.

I suspect that unless there is a major part with a hidden flaw in it that missed the inspectors, you will wear out before your LB 1911 will. Slight accuracy loss may occur at some high round count point in time, a Link or Bushing may wear and might need replacement, but wear out to the point that it will no longer work is unlikely - at least I've never witnessed that by normal shooter's.
 
How hard is it to find and buy parts in Germany?

Try a new barrel. At 15k rounds you'll need one sooner than later anyway. The lands and groves may be sharp and visible but still not have the same accuracy as when new.

Still, if you know of a good gunsmith who knows 1911s I'd have him look at it

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Daimler1989 said:
thanks everyone

in a closer look to some points mentioned: There is no play at the bushing, no play of the barrel in battery, edges of the locking lugs are sharp. Borehole of slide stop is a VERY little bit enlarged on left side of the frame. The barrel looks good with sharp lands (I mostly shoot copper plated lead bullets). So far only the slide-to-frame-fit seems to show wear. What can a gunsmith do about that?

regards
Ulrich
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A competent 1911 bullseye gunsmith, not just any gunsmith, with the appropriate knowledge and correct tools, can squeeze the slide and peen the frame rails to get a tighter fit between them, which is felt to aid in the consistency of how the pistol locks up, and thus, in its accuracy.
 
Did LB use Caspian frames for his top ends in the early 90's? I have to admit, I know very little about LB pistols.
 
BlueRidgeBoy said:
A competent 1911 bullseye gunsmith, not just any gunsmith, with the appropriate knowledge and correct tools, can squeeze the slide and peen the frame rails to get a tighter fit between them, which is felt to aid in the consistency of how the pistol locks up, and thus, in its accuracy.
Click to expand...

My father did just this with a Thompson 1911. It did help accuracy. Not a tough job if you know what you're doing.
 
johngalt said:
The slide to frame fit is not very significant to accuracy. The bushing fit is much more important.
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The above statement is true. The barrel to slide fit is what contributes the most to accuracy. The barrel bushing, barrel lugs, and barrel hood fitment all have a much larger impact than the slide to frame fit when it comes to accuracy. The sights and barrel are all locked into the slide. This combination of parts is what determines where the bullet will hit.

Getting the framed stretched and peened might be a good idea at this point but the effect on accuracy probably won't be much. .
 
nachogrande said:
Previous answers covered your "sloppy" slide I think, BUT comparing about anything against a Sig 210 (in a different caliber no less) isn't a fair comparison.
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I used to have a score of 370-378 of 400 with both the LB and the SIG with a slight advantage to the LB due to it's better sights (the SIG has the original iron sights with a very narrow front sight). Although I quite often have problems with proper aiming due to my age and deteriorating eye sight, I now have the higher score with the SIG (still between 365-375 of 400) while the score with the LB dropped to 350-365.

So I figure out it might not be me but the gun. When the LB was new, it could be compared to the SIG regarding accuracy. Though, overall quality of the SIG is another thing, those guns would have a price tag of 3000 German D-Mark 25 years ago whereas you could get a LB for half the price over here in Germany (which was expensive as well then).
 
Jeff Cooper remarked that serious competitors kept 3 pistols: one in service, one in reserve and one out for tune up.

1911’s used in serious competition run thousands of rounds each season. Competitors often have their pistols tuned during off seasons.

This isn’t a new practice: the Brits return their Holland & Holland’s and Purdeys to the makers at the end of the season for tuning.
 
I heard that the soldiers in Afghanistan are catching bad guys that are using 250 year old Brown Bess muskets. Plenty of guns out there still in use after two or three centuries. Take care of a gun and it can last a very long time.
 
Bill Raby said:
I heard that the soldiers in Afghanistan are catching bad guys that are using 250 year old Brown Bess muskets. Plenty of guns out there still in use after two or three centuries. Take care of a gun and it can last a very long time.
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Yes and no. Those guns are out there being used but often they're nothing more then a few parts from the old muskets. Over the years those guns have been re arsenaled by gunsmiths in caves using whatever at hand. Many are more dangerous to the user than to the target.

The glock and the other pistol are just copies. That looks like a 8mm bolt action AK. And the last used to be an SKS judging by the bolt and magazine

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johngalt said:
The slide to frame fit is not very significant to accuracy. The bushing fit is much more important.
Click to expand...

The above is a fact. I've shot WWII vintage 1911's that rattled horribly that were still very accurate.

I know of a first generation Kimber that had well over 100,000 rounds through it before the slide cracked. The barrel and bushing had been replaced at about 50,000 rounds. The slide was replaced with a 22 conversion and it's still going strong. :eek:

And rental guns aren't taken care of nearly as well.
 
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