How to develop the best load for a pistol??

[Michael Early]

I have recently acquired a 327 TRR 8. And I want to start loading for that pistol using my 550B. I want to load for both general target work (primarily <25 yards) with an eye towards the best accuracy I can get as well as develop a load for protection. I have done a lot of rifle reloading for bench rest shooting so I understand how to tune for a powder and specific bullet and have used the 550B to load a lot of generic (just wanted to make sure they went bang and not focusing on accuracy) .38 and .45's. But for this exercise I am trying to develop the most accurate and consistent load (bullet type and weight, powder type and weight, seating depth, etc) for this pistol using the 550B.

Right now I am planing on the Speer 125 grain GDHP as a defensive round in 357 mag, but also want to work up some general use rounds in .38 and .38+P with a 125 grn (Everglades plated FP round for practice. In addition, I think I read somewhere that the "best" round for a .38 is 158 grn and I have a bunch of those - SNS coated.

My "problem" comes in trying to figure out how to develop the best load given the powders that I have on hand. I have Unique, Power Pistol, AutoComp, CFE Pistol, and 3N37 (probably be better if I only had 1 ). I realize that each gun/bullet combination is going to have a "best powder/load" but I'll be darned if I can figure out the most efficient way to get there. I've read enough to know that it seems everyone has their go-to powder/load but I'd like to develop my best go-to powder/load for this pistol.

I realize that the burn rates on a couple of these powders are very close together if not adjacent but have no idea/experience if they would offer different performance so I am thinking I would have to make a load to find out.

In the past (when I had one powder and one bullet) I loaded up about 6-8 rounds of 3 different powder charges and tested. Using a chronograph for the test and focusing on ES and SD. However with a couple of different bullet types and two different weights combined with 5 different powders doing 6-8 rounds for each combination is a heck of a lot of rounds. And while it is the right time of the year to spend creating loads I'm not sure I will get the value for the time it will take to load about 500 rounds.

I am guessing there is no magic answer here but am very interested in how someone else with a lot more reloading experience that I have would approach this issue.

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions.....

 

[Nevada Ed]

I do not have 3N37 powder but the rest work great in the 9mm
and will also work with the 38 special in full loads.

The CFE might be the best for your target work.

Good luck.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

First thing I do is a little research on forums such as this. I also goggle caliber bullet weight and powder. I like too see what others are having good luck with. That gives me a place th start. Then just like I do with a rifle I stair step loads in two tenths grain increments. Then to the range for a little testing.

 

[JimBianchi]

I built up my loads for 38SPL competition similarly.

Three powders, two bullets, 10 rounds each.

Best two (only accuracy counts) got 5 different length.

None were near max loads, so I only chronographed the final bunch.

I found 158 RNL over 3.2grns of Bullseye with a OAL 1.450 inch was the best. (SW Model 14-3) I've loaded and shot 3K of them without issue and they are very accurate.

I recent got a 4in Model 19-3 and it likes 160 RN grn, coated, over 3.2grn Bullseye with an overall length of 1.55 inch.

If I can tune the 19 enough, I'll retire the Model 14 because I prefer the 4 inch barrel length. (I'll have to shorted the OAL length of for this new round I'f I want to shoot from the Model 14)

 

[Protocall_Design]

I load everything on a 550B (4 of them, 12 toolheads). These are all match grade loads for competition. In the 38 - 357 department I mostly shoot 38s loaded with either 125 gr. JHP over 6.5 gr. Power Pistol or 138 gr. Bayou Bullets wadcutters with 5.2 gr. of 231/HP38. Both loads shoot 1-1/2" or less at 50 yd., the JHPs shoot 3/8" at 25 yd. out of a Ransom Rest. With these wadcutters you want to be close to 920 fps. for best accuracy.

The CFE Pistol is supposed to be a very good target load powder, but I have never tried it.

For revolver accuracy, general starting points are -
Heaviest bullet for that caliber will retain accuracy to the furthest distance.
Hollow Point bullets seem to shoot the tightest groups, with Hornady XTP at the top, Zero, Sierra, and Nosler very close second.
S&W has too slow of twist (1 in 18-3/4) to stabilize slow bullets past 25 yd. Better twist rate is 1 in 10 to 1 in 14 if rebarreling.
For the slower twist rate, a load of higher velocity will shoot tighter groups. Generally, 900 to 1050 for subsonics, 1150+ for supersonics.
Just about anything works OK out to 25 yards, after that you have to start getting picky for small groups.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Segregate your brass and make sure that it is all of the same lenght.Then proceed to load 25 with a medium charge(according to 2 or 3 manuals)of each powder you have.
Go out and test by batch of 5.Pick up the most accurate powder and from there start modifying your loads by 0.2gr increments.
A little time consuming but so fun.And hey!don't forget to note your results in a log book.
Qc

 

[mike campbell]

To avoid being overwhelmed by the total number of experiments, narrow it down and approach it systematically. The narrowest I'd go is one bullet with all the available "suitable" powders. In this case, the 125FP and 5 powders. Based on published data, I'd pick a mid-range load for each powder and load 10 rds of each .... that's only 50 rds. Enuff for 2 separate, 5-shot groups shot from a revolver 15-20 minutes apart. For me, that's a one-hour range session, so I sometimes go to the range with one bullet over a dozen different powders. For autoloaders I sometimes test full magazines rather than just 5 shots.

At this point, I'm screening for that "magic" love affair a bullet has for one particular powder.

Now, how to test? Obviously, I want to minimize all variables except the 2 I'm studying. Mostly, I need to minimize shooter error. When younger and no bifocals, I'd test at 25 yds, knowing I was capable of 5-shot one-hole groups. Nowadays, one-hole groups are much more likely at 50 feet and that's where I start. In the event I get one-hole groups with more than one recipe, sorting out first and second place at 25 or even 50 yds is an experiment for a later day.

At the end of one range session I will likely have eliminated 2 or 3 of the 5 powders for that bullet in that gun, and possibly identified 1 or 2 that warrant further testing. Sure, changes to powder charge, primer, OAL, etc. may have an effect on accuracy, but those are more often for optimizing after the candidates have been narrowed to 1 or 2. The really huge differences that I can hang my hat in a screening session are in the powder/bullet combo.

KEEP RECORDS. It's very easy to cut out a bullseye, note all the pertinent details and drop it in a folder.
This way, I can keep track of the "best to date" for a particular bullet in a particular gun. The next range session may be to compare a couple of powder charge levels with the frontrunners, or maybe to screen a different set of powders. Eventually, a favorite will start to surface and I sometimes include it in subsequent sessions.

This is from one 3-hour range session...an array of 3 bullets and 8 powders.

I'll bet, at a glance, anybody can spot a couple of potential winners, a couple worth re-testing, and more than a few to make you say, "won't bother again."

For me, it's never "done." I've had favorites, loads I call my "bucket loads", survive for several years only to be replaced by a new bullet/powder combo. For instance, my go-to 45ACP load for a decade was 5.5 grains of Bullseye under a couple of different 200gr bullets. During the great powder starvation I bought a bunch of WST, just because it was available. Figured I could always use it as a practice trap load to conserve my favorite powder for competition. In my 1911 45ACP, 5 grains of WST supplanted the Bullseye load ... not so in my Ruger SA 45ACP where it places third behind Bullseye and W231.

Fun.

 

[iouri]

I can't usually tell if it's a problem with my load or my shooting so I just make a ladder, usually 4-5 steps and at least 5 rounds per step, then pick one with lowest SD. Sometimes I can make another few around originally selected charge to fine tune.

 

[fredj338]

I first decide on a bullet style & weight. Then i look for a powder that gives me the vel I want w/o pushing max. Choose a charge that gets me close to the vel I want. Load to the longest oal that fits my gun.
Shhot 5 shot groups off a bench or use a Ransom. Charge weight can be up or down 1/10gr, oal can be reduced 0.010", best groups teadily appear.
Best accuracy always starts with a good bullet. Most of the time that will not be plated but jacketed or a good cast bullet.

 

[Nevada Ed]

"If I can tune the 19 enough, I'll retire the Model 14 because I prefer the 4 inch barrel length. (I'll have to shorted the OAL length of for this new round I'f I want to shoot from the Model 14) .......... "

I have a J frame 38 special with a stock cylinder that will take a 158 LRN bullet at a OAL of 1.56" of my best light target accuracy.
Your revolver will not swallow a 1.55" OAL ?

As for the CFE powder.......... 2" J frame;
110 JHP full load at 945fps........ 125 SJHP at 882..... 158 L at 740fps.

38 w/6" barrel
110....1080fps 125...1035fps 158 Lwc.... 939fps.

in my revolvers.

 

[Regaj]

I don't think there are any short cuts. Guns are like women... unique and individual and you can never be certain what they'll like (and won't) until you try. And some guns will shoot lots of loads well; other guns, well, not so much.

I always start with the bullet. Then, depending upon the kind of load I'm seeking (low, mid-range, or hot), I'll select an appropriate powder. I wouldn't worry about having lots of choices. Just do one powder at a time.

Brass and primer are usually pre-determined, usually because they're what I have on hand. But they're always of the same brand and lot, and in the case of brass, have been previously-fired the same number of times.

Then I load a pressure (ladder) series, carefully weighing each charge. With a rifle using optical sights not many of each load are needed - maybe three or six rounds. With a handgun and open sights, I'll always load at least ten rounds of each, so I can shoot at least two five-round groups.

The first pressure series is simply to quickly see if there's something worth further exploration. Usually there will be a point where groups tighten up (and then open back up beyond that).

That leads to a second pressure series and a second range session... usually with smaller powder increment changes and more rounds of each. What I'm seeking is a deeper dive into the area(s) that looked promising in the first session. I'll usually have a load I like at this point.

The only other things I'd add is that if you're targeting a progressive press for this new load, you'll want to concentrate on powders that meter well; and I'd avoid loads that are "fragile"... meaning they're accurate only in a very narrow pressure range.

As an aside, and for legal reasons, I'd recommend staying with a good factory load for defensive use. Make up a handload that is comparable in terms of recoil and exterior ballistics for practice. But put the factory stuff back in when you leave the range.

 

[stavey]

2 words
Ransom Rest

 

[rockquarry]

Michael Early- Your own outline for developing a good load is probably at least as good as most of the suggestions that follow your original post.

You might consider using two three bullets in your preferred weight range and style. Limiting yourself to one bullet could be a handicap if your gun doesn't shoot that bullet well. Same for powder. It will require more experimentation and shooting, of course, but in the end, you will have no doubts.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Were it me I would study a few manuals for that caliber and see if they have any combination of powder and bullet they all agree is reasonably accurate. I would use that as a starting point and tweak things up or down a bit until I got what shot best in my particular weapon. Try different bullet designs or weights and different but similar powders once you get one combination you are happy with and see if you can improve on it. Seems logical and reasonable to me.

 

[Michael Early]

2 words
Ransom Rest

One answer $$$$$$

 

[Michael Early]

thanks....

first and foremost thanks to everyone for the great ideas/ comments/ recommendations -- it is very much appreciated.

After doing a little bit of research and planning I've come up with a question. I went after reloading data on the powder sites, bullet sites, and Speer Reloading Manual #14. The attached pdf shows the current info. My question is -- There are a number of bullets that don't have load info from any of these sources (or anywhere else reputable that I looked either). Does that mean a) I should not try to use "that" powder with that bullet or b) using - the same as a similar weight bullet even if it is a different style or "coating", going up or down in charge depending on whether missing info is for a heavier or lighter bullet, c) use other loading manuals - any recommendations?, or d) ???

Hmm, I thought the attachment would just show in the post and not that it would have be downloaded to see... sorry about that.

 

[rockquarry]

I had a Ransom Rest with windage base years ago. No doubt they are useful. However, by developing good bench technique and using a good solid rest, you can do about as well as a Ransom Rest under some circumstances.

The late Al Miller was an excellent gun writer with lots of shooting experience and long-time editor of HANDLOADER and RIFLE magazines. He mentioned that a good bench shooter could duplicate 50 yard Ransom Rest results at 25 yards. I had my doubts when I first read this, but now believe that to be a valid statement. The big advantage to using the Ransom is that it doesn't become fatigued, and shooters do. Without realizing they are tired, they wonder why their groups enlarged.

I believe C. E. Harris, another very experienced shooter and former NRA Technical Staff writer, made a similar statement about Ransom Rest results at 25 yards.

 

[rwsmith]

You know the bullet....

What velocity will get the performance you want from that bullet? Check the tables to see which powder is suitable and should do the job in the gun that you own. Barrel length is important here. Can it reach the velocity required? Start near the velocity you need and work up loads until you reach that goal or your gun gets too hard to control for fast follow up shots.

 

[oddshooter]

Hey Michael,

"In the past (when I had one powder and one bullet) I loaded up about 6-8 rounds of 3 different powder charges and tested. Using a chronograph for the test and focusing on ES and SD. However with a couple of different bullet types and two different weights combined with 5 different powders doing 6-8 rounds for each combination is a heck of a lot of rounds. And while it is the right time of the year to spend creating loads I'm not sure I will get the value for the time it will take to load about 500 rounds. "


You already know the answer, you wrote it above. It takes time to make different bullet/powder/weight combos for testing. There is no magic.
You know that, you just don't like it.

I do this very thing myself. It takes lots of time to setup your press only to get 10 or 15 handloads.

I think the basic issue is setup time for the press.
I decided it took longer to adjust the powder than the bullet seating depth, so I leave the powder at a certain weight and then cycle through all the different bullets making 10 loads for each. I bought a Redding Competition seater with the top micro adjustments. That saved me every time I changed the bullet from having to move the lock screws on that die. Expensive but a huge time saver for me.

Getting a top adjustable crimper also saves time with all the adjustments.

That Vihtavuori 3N37 should be excellent. I think I have almost every handgun powder out there and I have landed on Vihtavuori as my fav. It is very clean, very accurate, and has a large range without spiking. It is the most expensive by quite a bit, but you get what you pay for. The 3N37 is fairly slow and should push pretty hard.

I go for group size and not Standard Deviation on velocity. Similar burn rates will not tell you if a specific gun will like a load. The target is the ultimate arbiter.

 

[JimBianchi]

"If I can tune the 19 enough, I'll retire the Model 14 because I prefer the 4 inch barrel length. (I'll have to shorted the OAL length of for this new round I'f I want to shoot from the Model 14) .......... "

I have a J frame 38 special with a stock cylinder that will take a 158 LRN bullet at a OAL of 1.56" of my best light target accuracy.
Your revolver will not swallow a 1.55" OAL ?

haven't tried it yet.

Just assuming it will be a little long and slower to speed load in competition.