How we got where we are

[jjrr]

We have some important discussion on this forum about the fine points and equipment of concealed carry and being an old guy I have been thinking about how things were in my youth compared to today. When I was young I remember that a lot of people didn’t even own a handgun, most has something for target shooting or hunting but not specifically for defense.

Penalties for criminal behavior have become more lenient and it seems that lawmakers across the country are making things easier for the criminal and more difficult for a citizen to defend against criminal behavior. How does the electorate figure into this when a lot of people in legislatures across the country continue to go after gun ownership and make things easier on law breakers when their position on gun control and crime were clearly known before they were elected.

What are people thinking, is it that “oh they won’t do that” or is it the political party or fear of guns or he or she is such a good person they wouldn’t couldn’t possibly want to pass a law that would make you less safe. Is there a way to turn this trend around.

 

[alwslate]

Things have actually gotten better in many states. Shall issue gun permit laws were not in effect back in about 1955 when my father got a CC permit and I did back in 1965. Some states now are "constitution", permit less, carry. There are many choices in concealable handguns these days.

 

[John Patrick]

Thanks to Trump and his SCOTUS appointments, who prevailed in the Bruen decision, things are getting materially better, though states like NY are trying to end run the Bruen decision and SCOTUS.

Like Washington DC, which before Heller was a will not issue “state” but was forced to become a shall issue “state” long before Bruen, NY and the others will be forced to adhere to the Constitution.

 

[chief38]

As I see it, the Law itself matters less than what people chose to enforce. In some States, they simply don't care what the SCOTUS rules on, they just do what anyway.

Once the individual States do what they want, the rule of law is gone and anarchy rears its ugly head. Not good times!

 

[Shibadog]

As I see it, the Law itself matters less than what people chose to enforce. In some States, they simply don't care what the SCOTUS rules on, they just do what anyway.

Once the individual States do what they want, the rule of law is gone and anarchy rears its ugly head. Not good times!

And there you have it. Existing laws not enforced, so just pass new laws. Grandson is a deputy Sheriff in NYState. Last fall he and a partner were called on an armed robbery. (The robber turned out to be a felon with a long record). The boy and his partner were involved in foot pursuit of this character, who proceeded to fire a weapon at the two officers. When the grandson got the drop on this joker it was immediately “don’t shoot, don’t shoot”. They arrested him, found the cash he’d stolen, plus a bag of drugs, plus a Glock. He went to court,was cussing and generally playing as ***. The liberal judge gave him 60 days for contempt of court! Nothing for the robbery, nothing for shooting at police officers, and nothing for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. (The firearms charge ALONE should have sent this animal to prison for 15 yrs). This type of BS is exactly why crime rates are up. I saw the pursuit on my grandson’s body camera. Spooky stuff.

 

[alwslate]

I grew up in a gritty working town, lots of bullies. Every body wanted to be known as a bad ***. Many people carried guns actually, mostly illegally. The difference between now and then in the late 50s-early 60s is what was carried. Back then the bad boys were easier to kill apparently. Most people carried a variety of what was available, .25 autos, cheap .22 derringers, old Owls Heads, as they were called, .32 S&W, and .38 S&W top breaks, cheap RG .22 Short revolvers. One guy carried a .32 auto, make unknown, he didn't even have a magazine for. Yep a single shot .32 auto. showed me how fast he could chamber another loose round from his pocket. One guy showed me his Rg .22 Short revolver that he had sawed off the end of the barrel so it would fit in his pocket better. Who needs a front sight at bully distance? Today folks need high cap 9mms and 25 yd steel plate accuracy, or so they think. I was guilty too, carried a Colt .22 Short single shot derringer for awhile until I upgraded my fire power to a mighty .25 auto. Those days seem like the good old days to me quite often.

 

[Greyman50]

IMHO the “ general public” has been and is being conditioned by tv, movies, internet, ECT…stupid is as stupid does. Long gone are traditions this nation was founded on and many of us have fought for. Think about it.

 

[Shibadog]

I grew up in a gritty working town, lots of bullies. Every body wanted to be known as a bad ***. Many people carried guns actually, mostly illegally. The difference between now and then in the late 50s-early 60s is what was carried. Back then the bad boys were easier to kill apparently. Most people carried a variety of what was available, .25 autos, cheap .22 derringers, old Owls Heads, as they were called, .32 S&W, and .38 S&W top breaks, cheap RG .22 Short revolvers. One guy carried a .32 auto, make unknown, he didn't even have a magazine for. Yep a single shot .32 auto. showed me how fast he could chamber another loose round from his pocket. One guy showed me his Rg .22 Short revolver that he had sawed off the end of the barrel so it would fit in his pocket better. Who needs a front sight at bully distance? Today folks need high cap 9mms and 25 yd steel plate accuracy, or so they think. I was guilty too, carried a Colt .22 Short single shot derringer for awhile until I upgraded my fire power to a mighty .25 auto. Those days seem like the good old days to me quite often.

Ah, the RG-now There was a quality weapon. My first handgun was a new RG 23. It was like $10. More dangerous to the person standing beside it than to the target in front

 

[Inusuit]

I grew up on a ranch in the 50s and 60s. My dad never left the house without his Colt Woodsman. He was prepared to use it on two occasions I'm aware of, but the situations didn't develop. We stopped late at night on two lane highway. Car off to the side with 5 people standing around. Dad was a kind and helpful man. Flat tire but no jack. Dad handed me the Colt and said keep an eye out. He changed the tire for them.

Another involved the attempted theft of gas from a tractor running an irrigation pump. Miscreant's car, out of gas, parked on the county road. I took the truck to call LE (no cell phones in 1960) while took the Colt and went to investigate. Found a gas can and syphon, no thief.

 

[somorris]

A lot of folks seem to forget the good things the NRA has done over the past many years to make it possible for us to equip ourselves for self defense. Now, liberal prosecutors are making general society much worse as you have witnessed.

 

[Old cop]

I policed through the ‘70s, ‘80s & ‘90s and saw/experienced a lot. Since my retirement our crime rate seems to have increased to the point where people are finally beginning to demand change. That will only happen with a change in elected leadership, and that could take awhile.

 

[Yaworski]

Since my retirement our crime rate seems to have increased to the point where people are finally beginning to demand change.

I'm not sure that fear of punishment is a crime deterrent. Some people just don't care. My son was one of them, not a criminal except in our house. From the time he was two if he wanted to do something, he'd do it. No cares about toys being taken away, time outs, even getting a wallop. The same seems true for the criminal element, they don't care about you and they don't care about going to jail.

It also often seems that the government goes after the otherwise law abiding citizen for things that a true outlaw would get a pass. Send a message and put fear into the hearts of the plebs.

Not wanting to go broke and wanting to stay out of the graybar hotel has tempered many decisions in my life.

 

[Ingramite]

Hang around long enough and you will witness the pendulum swinging both ways.

It's all about which way the prevailing political winds are blowing at any given time.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

The porous border has affected Houston more than most places, but it is spreading quickly to the rest of the country. MS13 is shaking down local businesses. Murders do not even make the news. Drive by shootings on the freeway and elsewhere are weekly events. At least the miscreants could practice marksmanship, so the right people get hit. No one pays attention when they elect local judges and ours came from straight ticket votes in 2020 election which put disasterously unqualified persons in those positions leading to little if any jail time for veteran offenders who run back to Mexico and assume yet another new identity before coming back. The police in town proper have reduced traffic stops because they do not want to get shot. Windowless vans patrol the streets looking for lone children and women. Having a gun is a good idea, and fortunately little enthusiasm outside of urban centers to reduce legal gun ownership.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... being an old guy I have been thinking about how things were in my youth compared to today. When I was young I remember that a lot of people didn’t even own a handgun ...

Some people had one. Usually something from WWI or WWII. Lawmen would have two. Most families had a rifle or a shotgun.

Remember when the NRA sent out their Report Cards on candidates? Democrats use to have pro-2A Congresspersons. Republicans had pro-Choice Congresspersons. 1960 Presidential election was a changing point.

 

[M29since14]

Things will change and go the other direction when enough people want them to. It will take more than the present “relatively silent minority.”

Right now I think the lawlessness we see that seems so prevalent has not reached enough people - yet. The stupid and disinterested still are overpowering the common sense. It’s the old “rule of thirds” that affects so many issues in the United States. One third pro, one third con, one third “don’t care, leave me alone.”

 

[ladder13]

Down ballots, ie DA’s, judges, prosecutors,are often more important than the top. That’s where all the local issues are determined.

Many don’t know enough about the bottom of the ballot, never taking the time to research. I scrutinize every position and how their stances affect me.

 

[Ingramite]

I'm glad that I'm at the tail end of my journey here on earth. My kids are now middle aged with some of my grand kids leaving the nest. They are the ones that I worry about for now.

Gone is our industrial might that provided good middle class jobs and economic opportunities. Vast areas of our nation lay in waste and decay.

It's unrealistic to expect someone to stand up straight when their backbone has been removed. I'm a simple man who speaks and writes in a very simple fashion. This is what I see today.

The last politician who said something that I've come to believe was Ike. He spoke of the Military / Industrial complex. The next generation of politicians allowed our country to be gutted for the economic gain of globalists.

I believe that it is a very shallow understanding of economic drivers that would lead to the conclusion that all of this is somehow linked to the lack of will to apply law and order.

Someone who has not experienced a bite of the economic apple will have little concern for the health and welfare of the tree that bore the fruit.

Or, maybe it really is Taylor Swift to blame.

 

[Bald1]

And there you have it. Existing laws not enforced, so just pass new laws. Grandson is a deputy Sheriff in NYState. Last fall he and a partner were called on an armed robbery. (The robber turned out to be a felon with a long record). The boy and his partner were involved in foot pursuit of this character, who proceeded to fire a weapon at the two officers. When the grandson got the drop on this joker it was immediately “don’t shoot, don’t shoot”. They arrested him, found the cash he’d stolen, plus a bag of drugs, plus a Glock. He went to court,was cussing and generally playing as ***. The liberal judge gave him 60 days for contempt of court! Nothing for the robbery, nothing for shooting at police officers, and nothing for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. (The firearms charge ALONE should have sent this animal to prison for 15 yrs). This type of BS is exactly why crime rates are up. I saw the pursuit on my grandson’s body camera. Spooky stuff.

Shooting at a cop or anyone else should be attempted murder in my book.

 

[BB57]

There are a few other things involved.

1) For awhile I worked as a psychologist in a state hospital and was assigned two wards of people who were deferred from the criminal justice system due to mental disorders or cognitive impairments.

These were individuals who had been “mainstreamed” under community inclusion and de-institutionalization efforts. Now…there’s nothing wrong with de-institutionalization for the vast majority of individuals with mental health or intellectual disabilities and we definitely don’t want to go back to the 60s and 70s in that context.

But there is also pressure to go too far with de-institutionalization. One of the units I worked with were individuals who were convicted and it was the parole board that prevented them from being moved to community settings. Thank God. Those folks were dangerous. On the other unit the individuals had been diverted prior to any conviction and thus were expected to be moved to a less restrictive community setting if their behavior warranted it. But quite frankly most of them were just as dangerous.

That’s just a small part of a larger problem where ar e mental health care system has been disassembled by well meaning people who feel no one should be in an institution. The problem is there are not sufficient community resources to address there needs ans many end up on the street homeless and or committing crimes to support themselves.

If they commit a crime with a gun, the gun gets blamed.


2) while we have a number of federal and state laws on the books that make it a crime for a prohibited person to possess a gun, or require an additional mandatory minimum sentence if a gun is used in a crime, they are almost never enforced.

For example if someone commits a robbery or an assault with a gun the prosecutor will almost always plead out the case based on the primary offense of robbery or assault (and sometimes plead it out as a misdemeanor) and in exchange for a plea the weapons charges with their long sentences will be dropped entirely.

It’s the same if a criminal uses a short barrel shotgun or other NFA listed item. They’ll take a plea in exchange for the weapon charge(s) being dropped. It’s ironic but the folks most likely to be convicted of an NFA violation are people who come to law enforcement attention for some other very minor infraction, where the police and prosecutors they jump on that non violent status or possession offense as a much bigger and higher profile offense.

That’s directly counter to the original intent of the NFA of 1934 to increase penalties and sentences imposed on gangsters using NFA listed weapons.


3) Sometimes gun laws are not enforced as there isn’t sufficient funding to enforce them.

Each attempted straw purchase should be investigated and if appropriate, prosecuted. Every case of a prohibited individual attempting to buy a firearm should be investigated and if appropriate prosecuted.

Every final on a NICS check should at least be reported to and given at least a cursory investigation by local law enforcement.

But they are rarely even looked at.

A major and on going issue with NICS itself is that it’s under funded and things that should be uploaded to the system sometimes are not. When an individual who should have been prohibited commits a gun crime, we hear about it and we hear demands for more gun control. No one talks about how the current laws on the books failed because no one provides sufficient funds.


4) Rates of gun ownership are decreasing and there are fewer hunters and fewer still farm and ranch folks who regard guns as just another tool to be used and properly respected.

I used to teach at a university along with directing a couple programs there. I was over at a friend and employees house when some friends of his kids arrived. He also worked at the university and his kids were students there. Their friends had apparently never seen guns before. Both Jim and I were working on an FEG Hi Power and one of the students remarked that he was amazed that holding a gun didn’t “change us”. Jim and I looked at each other with what I am sure was a “WTF” expression. But the reality was this 20 year old kid thought that just holding a gun would make someone evil or aggressive.

It’s hard to win at the ballot box with increasing numbers of people who have uninformed, irrational, emotion driven beliefs like that.

There’s also the continuing myth that the police are there to protect us. Numerous court rulings have clearly states the police do not have a duty to protect. Even if they did, any one who has ever been in law enforcement recognizes that the police will almost never arrive in time to prevent anything. They’ll get there after the rape, assault or murder, take statements collect evidence, give condolences and try to catch who ever did it. But they will rarely arrive in time to prevent anything.

Responsibility for self defense and defense of family rests with the individual, not the police.

5). There was a school shooting in Perry IA not long ago. It’s a small town and I have friends there. One of them is my former employee from my university program director days. He expressed concern over some of the really stupid idea being proposed to prevent school violence, when the cause in this case was abundantly clear, with a kid who had been bullied for years and then final acted out when his younger sister also started to be bullied.

Lots of people will point to the rise in school shootings. Very few will point out that rise started when No Child Left Behind was passed with no additional funding and non required positions like school counselors were eliminated.

We don’t need school counselors as they don’t boost test scores so let’s get rid of them! What a great idea! What could possibly go wrong!

As a herd we Americans are pretty stupid. It seems to have become national policy to pass laws that maximize profits and cut costs and services with little or no consideration of the long term consequences. That fits with wanting easy solutions to complex problems. We also seem to prefer appearance of fixing a problem over substance and actually fixing problems.