Hunters and Revolver Shooters Abandoning S&W?

[OPinOKC]

SWHC reported 4th fiscal quarter earnings yesterday, and the stock has nosedived (down over 8% as of midday today). They made money -- almost double last year's 4th quarter -- and overall sales were up 22% (pistols 33%) BUT revolver sales were down 2.8% and hunting products down 22%. I can understand the hunting products -- old age and obesity are slowing down all my hunting friends -- but why are revolver sales worse than last year? All the great classics now available certainly have my attention. Maybe it's an innovation failure: if the Taurus Judge or Ruger LCR were S&W products, SWHC would have the sales AND buyers would have a decent version of the product.

OP

 

[RonJ]

Ruger builds a stronger revolver for hunting and without the ugly IL wart. For hunting I'd buy a Ruger.

 

[zercool]

The hot items right now are semi-autos and black rifles. S&W is clearly on the black rifle bandwagon, but they are not often the first name to come to mind when someone (particularly someone new to the gun world) says, "Self, I need a pistol." Instead, they think "Glock" or "1911" or "Sig" (to pick a few). In the same vein, if someone is worried about a type of gun being banned or restricted, it's not the wheelguns and hunting rifles they're worrying about (yet) - it's the bottomfeeders of various persuasions.

Just my nickel.

 

[Racegunner]

... BUT revolver sales were down 2.8% and hunting products down 22%. ... why are revolver sales worse than last year?
OP

One word: "Internal Lock" ... ok you get two words for the price of one
Also, they don't have quite the sex appeal as semis do to "most buyers."
If any of the lead actors in this summer's action movies used a Smith wheelgun, I guarantee sales would be waaay up!
Look what Dirty Harry did for the Model 29. However, I bet S&W makes a healthier profit from the semi M&Ps than the wheel guns.

 

[M29since14]

...Maybe it's an innovation failure: if the Taurus Judge or Ruger LCR were S&W products, SWHC would have the sales AND buyers would have a decent version of the product. OP

I doubt it. The items mentioned strike me as niche products that S&W probably is not interested in competing with - at least, for now.

I think what you are seeing is the conservative nature of the type of person that buys their revolvers, in general. And I agree with the post above that mentions buyers may be spending their bucks on other types of products - such as AR15s, etc. S&W did get into the AR business in time to get in on some sales, but whether they will recover their investment before the politicians shut down sales... ? I suppose they have, long since.

I would consider buying a couple of their so-called Classic reproductions, viz. the new Model 24s, but the price is a bit steep! Since I have no pressing need for a new revolver, I would rather wait around and see if an older model happens to turn up. If the price was a bit more attractive, I might feel differently.

 

[GatorFarmer]

People don't buy many revolers. Either hunting guns or J frames are probably what sells the most. Not sure how they split up the revolvers, but hunting guns are a discretionary thing that will drop in bad economic times. Last years, or last decade's gun, is probably actually going to work just as well as anything.

 

[18DAI]

S&W is competeing with itself, and losing money IMO. Many S&W revolver fans, like myself, only seek out pre lock, pre MIM, S&W revolvers. Despite the rantings of fanboys, S&W's "innovative" features on their current production revolvers are largely unwanted by S&W revolver enthusiasts. Nobody I know buys them. They compete with me for LNIB pre locks.

Add to that the people who didn't know any better and bought them, only to ship them back (repeatedly in some cases) for defects that should have been discovered by rudimentary QA/QC, and word gets around.

Don't forget the light strikes from shortened firing pins which are designed to pass California drop tests. It may be that S&W's innovations are in the process of coming home to roost. If so, they deserve it, IMHO of course. Regards 18DAI

 

[pharmer]

If I can buy a 29-2 in perfect condition for $750 and a new 2 piece barrel with a lock zit is over a grand, not much incentive to buy new. Strictly business. Joe

 

[bmcgilvray]

I'm waiting for the lock to disappear before buying any new revolver from them. The numbers of desirable "traditional" models of Smith & Wesson revolvers available on the used market means I can happily wait longer than they can afford to lose sales.

 

[Leonard]

I do not like their new products and the lock itself prevents me from buying their classic knock offs. I buy older Smiths

Len

 

[Pisgah]

I can't speak for "the market", but as for myself ...

S&W has simply removed itself as a maker of revolvers that I would buy. There is one currrent exception, the new edition of the Centennial pocket revolver which does not have the internal lock. The last new S&W I bought was one of the bobbed-hammer, no-lock, casehardened hammer/trigger, +P rated 37-2 revolvers that were, supposedly, overruns from a foreign government contract.

But, it's not just the lock. Things like 2-piece barrels and MIM parts are not attractive to me. I know all the arguments that these features are actually better than the old-style ones -- but they just do not have the same look, and feel, that I love in the older S&W line. It is sad to say, but today's S&Ws do not, in my eye or mind, equal even the much-maligned guns of the Bangor-Punta ownership era.

I buy, and will continue to buy, almost every reasonably priced, decent S&W revolver of an earlier time I come across, but I've pretty much quit even looking at the new ones.

 

[cmort666]

I've got ten revolvers. Nine of them are S&Ws. NONE of them has a lock.

S&W currently makes NO revolver, apart from one or two J frames which I would even accept as a gift.

S&W has determined that it doesn't need my business.

 

[grit]

I'd be curious to see the sales growth/decline for the larger caliber revolvers...it seems like tons of folks are picking up 500's...mainly for hunting.

 

[JoeR]

I look at new S&Ws, like the look, see the hole in the side and move on.

I don't like the lock. Maybe someone in their management will realize this in the future. Until then, my money goes elsewhere, aka other brands and real "classic" Smiths.

JR

 

[perrazi]

totally agree on the negative of the new guns. build guns like they are supposed to be, no idiot lock,no mim parts,pinned in barrels that are one piece and normally rifled, and make the goodyear grips an option,not a requirement. until then, i buy the older guns only.

 

[Peter J.]

Not only do they need to lose the lock, for me to buy a new S&W wheelie they better both pin the barrel and recess the cylinder.

 

[Texas Star]

Ditto on The Lock and MIM parts. They had a fine design, but ruined it. Even the looks of the new guns revolts me. They ruined classic lines to fit that infernal lock.

T-Star

 

[ArgMauser]

Since you asked, OPinOKC, here's my take on the question.

1. S&W used to make a revolver with beautiful lines. Now they don't--with a very few exceptions.

2. S&W used to make a revolver that was more reliable than the typical semi-auto. Now they don't.

3. S&W used to offer revolvers at a variety of price points. Now they don't--they are all arguably over-priced.

4. I, for one, am selling S&W's and buying older Charter Arms for curent use. That way, when Pres. Obama and AG Holder execute their firearm plans, I won't feel as bad.

 

[Zilmo]

I don't like the locks at all. And the Performance Center guns are absolutely hideous in my opinion. All of my Smiths are older, and I don't see that changing.

 

[TNDave]

One thing I see is younger guys who are getting into handguns don't even consider revolvers for defensive carry. Airweight J frames still have a place as a hot weather or BUG, but other than that they consider the revolver a relic.
People who really like and enjoy revolvers will not buy Smiths with locks, MIM, two piece barrels, etc. There are a lot of nice old guns out there to be had that are nicer than new ones and increase in value or at least hold their value. Those are the guns people are looking for.
As far as hunting guns the Ruger Blackhawk and Redhawk are cheaper than a new Smith. Frankly the prices I see on new Smiths are insane.
So between a generational shift to auto pistols, new products purists won't accept, and quality, cheaper guns available to hunters I don't know what to say to Smith.