I could use some SA Ruger assistance, please

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Herknav

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My dad is getting ready to retire from his day job, and I would like to buy him a present to commemorate that. Dad has always been a no-frills guy who didn't spend a lot on himself. He likes Ruger firearms because they're tough and no-frills (like him), and he's a huge cowboy fan (John Wayne, not football).

So, I need you gents to help educate me on the ins and outs of Ruger SA revolvers. It looks like my choices are the Vaquero and the New Model Blackhawk. I think the differences are fixed vs adjustable sights, and the Vaquero is a bit smaller. Is the pre-1973 smaller frame available in .45 Colt? He's got medium-sized hands and kind of short fingers, so I'm concerned about the bigger frame.

Any assistance y'all could lend would be greatly appreciated.

Herk
 
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The pre-1973 Blackhawk is the same size as the current Blackhawk, the only real difference is the transfer bar safety, which allows you to carry six rounds instead of five like a traditional Colt. Pre-1973 .45 Colt Blackhawks are very rare only being made for a couple of years before 1973 and are very expensive.
The Vaquero that was first introduced in 1994 or so was built on the same frame as the Blackhawk what is known being made is the New Vaquero which is a smaller Colt style frame.
You can always change grips on whatever gun you buy, you are not limited to the factory options there either. One thing though, the Blackhawk and the original Vaquero are a tougher gun than the New Vaquero because of the fact it is a heavier frame. They will both handle all the factory loads, but for those that handload, you will see manuals that say "Ruger only" loads. There are for those Blackhawks and early Vaquero's.
My hands are a medium size, and I found that I like both the Blackhawk, and the original Vaquero, I just got rid of the factory grips.

Here is my Vaquero, the way you can tell the early ones from the new ones is that the current version says "New Vaquero" as opposed to just "Vaquero"

vaquero3.jpg
 
Hi:
I would choose the Ruger "Vaquero" in .45colt caliber with the short 4 3/4" (?) barrel. This is "Cowboy" style and also the style John Wayne carried in most of His movies.
Jimmy
 
Thanks for the replies, gents. Here are a couple more questions. I apologize for the stream-of-consciousness arrangement.

- Frame Size: Mr. LaPell stated that current and pre-73 Blackhawk frames are the same size. Where does the XR3 grip frame fit in? I remember them making a big deal out of that for the 50th Anniversary models.

- Vaquero sights: How do the fixed sights work with older eyes? I've never had a fixed-sight revolver, so I was wondering how close to point-of-aim they shoot coming out of the box. I know it'll vary somewhat with different loads, but how much barrel-twisting and filing down of front sights really goes on? (Perhaps I've read too much Keith. :))
 
Ruger offered a John Wayne collector just a couple off years ago. Also I know there was someone out there that did a clone of the yellow handle he carried in most of his cowboy movies, I just can't think of who made them.
 
Big man big gun...Super blackhawk 44 mag 7 1/2
000_0851.jpg

Blackhawk 45 colt/45acp 5 1/2
bhconvertiblels1.jpg
 
Good questions. Note that the upper frame for the cylinder is larger on the New Models, but the grip frame is about the same; grip panels are easy to change. I would look for an adjustable sight model, probably a .45 Convertible [.45 Colt/ACP] New Model Blackhawk 4 5/8" bbl, with XR3 RED grip, which is slightly roomier than the XR3.

If you can find the new smaller frame adjustable sight .45, go for it. [I don't stay up on these models.] I like my Old Model .45 4 5/8" convertible, but hard to find.

Regards,

Dyson
 
The 50th Anniversary frames were built on the very early Flat Top style guns that first came out in 1955 before the change to what is the current style. They never made those early style guns in .45 Colt. The 50th Anniversary guns were in two calibers, .44 Magnum with a 6 1/2 inch barrel, and a 4 5/8 barrel .357.
Lipsey's is now offering a flat top version in .45 Colt with a .45 ACP cylinder as well. Lipsey's is a Ruger distributor and they offering 500 of these guns.

These were two Flat tops I once owned, an original 1958 version and a 50th Anniversary .44, both excellent shooters but the .44 was a bit hard on the hands with the factory grips.

ruger2.jpg

Picture048.jpg
 
Herknav, the original grip frame "feel" was very much like a Colt Single Action Army. This frame was called the XR3. Then Ruger changed the shape, slightly. This new frame is the XR3-RED (XR3-REDesigned). People griped and complained about the XR3-RED for 40 years or so. When they brought out the "New Blackhawk" and "New Vaquero", for the 50th anniversary, they went back to the old, smaller "Colt-sized" frame, and the XR3 grip.

Originally, the small "Colt-sized" frame was only made in 357. All the other calibers were on the larger Super Blackhawk 44 frame. When they went to the "New Model" lockwork, in 1973, they discontinued the small frame, and now even the 357 was made on the large frame. When they brought out the Vaquero, all they did was change the sights, so they are all New Model actions on the large frame.

All of my centerfire Rugers are Blackhawks, with the adjustable sights. I don't know whether the Vaqueros shoot to point of aim, out of the box, or not, but the Blackhawk sights are just so much easier to see.

Have you thought about the Bisley? I totally dislike the Colt Bisley grip - it feels really weird. But the Ruger Bisley is a whole 'nother animal.

RugerBisleys2.jpg
 
I'm 62, don't have much trouble with the sights on my old Vaqueros or OM Blackhawk, all in .45. The fixed sights are generally acceptable, minute of pie plate at 20 yards, with 250-255 grain bullets and a moderate charge (9 to 10 grains) of Unique. The old Vaqueros are big and heavy and soak up the recoil. The 9 grain/255SWC load is very pleasant to shoot, and John Linebaugh says it will shoot lengthwise through a Mule Deer. I love my Ruger SAs. I haven't held or shot a New Vaquero. They look mighty slim and graceful. I like the old ones because if you run dry of ammo, they make a helluva club.;)
3.5" Vaquero .45 Colt
DSC02787.jpg


OM Blackhawk from 1973
IMG_0242.jpg
 
Alpo wrote this which is true:

Herknav, the original grip frame "feel" was very much like a Colt Single Action Army. This frame was called the XR3. Then Ruger changed the shape, slightly. This new frame is the XR3-RED (XR3-REDesigned). People griped and complained about the XR3-RED for 40 years or so. When they brought out the "New Blackhawk" and "New Vaquero", for the 50th anniversary, they went back to the old, smaller "Colt-sized" frame, and the XR3 grip.

Originally, the small "Colt-sized" frame was only made in 357. All the other calibers were on the larger Super Blackhawk 44 frame. When they went to the "New Model" lockwork, in 1973, they discontinued the small frame, and now even the 357 was made on the large frame. When they brought out the Vaquero, all they did was change the sights, so they are all New Model actions on the large frame.

Now, in 2005, Ruger brought out the .357 Anniversary model. It used the old, 1955-72 .357 midsized frame, but with the New Model lockwork and a STEEL XR3 gripframe and a flattop with an adjustable Micro style.

Next, Ruger brought out the New Vaquero, also on the midsized frame. NVs have traditional fixed sights and also use the steel XR3 gripframes. Calibers are .357 and .45 Colt.

Then, a special run of .44 Specials were made on the same platform as the .357 Anniversary guns.

I haven't kept up on all of the variations available today. You can get blued, color cased, and stainless steel.

The options in .45 caliber with fixed sights, are the Vaquero, no longer in production, built on the .44 magnum or the New Vaquero, built on the midsized (similar to the Colt Single Action Army) frame.
 
I have a fair sprinkling of Ruger SAs. The main differences, to me, anyway, are fixed sights vs. adjustables. The adjustables are a lot easier to see, and obviously a lot easier to dial in. Bulk and weight: the post-73s are pretty hefty and bigger. I can live with them in .44 and .45 because the holes are bigger, but they're a lot of gun. I have a .45 Convertible in that model that shoots incredibly well.

I really like the newer medium framed guns because I have smaller hands anyway. I had an older Vaquero that was a good gun but BIG. When the NM ones came out I jumped on a 4 5/8" .45 and I love it. Same weight and balance as the old Colt SAs and frankly a better gun.

The NM Flattop .357 is a great little gun, but chunky and heavy for its size. It sure soaks up .357 recoil, though. I also have the same basic gun in .44 Special, but haven't wrung it out much yet.

And now I find that there is a limited run of the same gun in .45 Colt/.45 ACP which I think is absolutely perfect. It's just that I've got to stop somewhere. Trouble is, I don't know if I really want to...
 
As others have said, the OMV is a larger frame than the New Model. Here's my old model and my Colt. You can see the difference. As for the sights, the open sights don't bother me for revolver ranges.
 

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My favorite Ruger SA is this old model Blackhawk. It's a "convertible" with both .45 Colt and .45 ACP fitted cylinders. I detest the transfer-bar actions, and prefer to go with the original and traditional 4-click reverse-indexing-lineup guns. These are hard to find, but I think they are still the best of all the .45 Ruger single actions. They are built like tanks, and will accept very heavy loads that rival or exceed the .44 magnum in power.

John

blackhawk45.jpg
 
Maximumbob54 said:
What happened??? :confused:

Those looked like keepers to me...

Three screw .44 flat top... slap yourself!!!!
Click to expand...

The 3 screw was a .357, the long barrel was the .44 50th Anniversary. What happened? Bills, and being injured on the job. My wife wanted to go back to work but I can't watch a 20 month old boy on my own. Babysitters would cost more than she would make, and I can't work the overtime I wanted to. So, life happened. To be honest, the OM Flat top I was always scared to take anywhere because I was afraid of scratching it, the NM was ok, but I think I would like an OM .44 shooter some time in a Flat top, the best of both worlds.
 
Davidson's "gallery of guns" has special runs of the new model Vaquero as a 45lc/45acp convertible with 4.62" and 5.5" barrels, in both blue and stainless. All 4 models are in stock, and go for about $600 + tax shipped. (it varies depending on which dealer you have it shipped to).

They also show 45lc Bisleys and Blackhawks in stock in several configurations for a little over $500 + tax shipped. For about $600 they have a 5.5" blue Vaquero with Synthetic Ivory W/Gold Medallion grips and Engraved Cylinder, W/Gold Band and Scroll.
 
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