I finally had an over pressurization event.

[dennis40x]

After twenty plus years reloading on progressive units I finally had an over pressurization event. A sharp report with attention getting recoil placed us on notice. The cartridge case is a classic example. Bulged where not supported by the barrel chamber, rim slightly torn, primer flattened and pierced.

We may have set the unofficial land speed record for the 225Gr truncated cast bullet in 45ACP.

Some details of the load components: W231 Charge Weight (5.7Grs) – Primer (WLP) – Case (Winchester) – Bullet (225Gr Truncated Cast) – OAL (1.205in)

The readily apparent problem a powder charge variance of some where between (5.7Grs) to a potential of (11.4Grs). The powder over charge probable cause is powder bridging in the measure dropping an overload or a double charge overload. Ultimately it’s my responsibility operator error. Bridging has not been a previous problem so the double charge is most likely what occurred. I’m not going to use the lame excuse that the RL 550B contributed to the problem with manual indexing as opposed auto indexing. I know how the tool operates/functions. The nettlesome aspect was being complacent and not being attendant to detail on my part.

The pistol a 1911 of recent manufacture is apparently none the worse for wear. The firing pin was blocked by prime cup material implanted on the slide breach face firing pin hole. I removed the firing pin, firing pin spring, and the extractor no damage noted. Punching the firing pin forward cleared the implanted primer cup material. Detailed disassembly and further examination with the aid of magnification no damage was noted.

Notice the bulge (not all the nicks are from this firing as the cases have been used numerous times)

Primer flattened and pierced

Slide breech face and firing pin hole nothing noticeable that would infer damage. Firing pin moves freely.. The extractor has no damage and functions with out a problem

Shooting double taps at 15 yards when the incident occurred. (The date printed on the magazine denotes placed in service.)

 

[dennis40x]

After twenty plus years reloading on progressive units I finally had an over pressurization event. A sharp report with attention getting recoil placed us on notice. The cartridge case is a classic example. Bulged where not supported by the barrel chamber, rim slightly torn, primer flattened and pierced.

We may have set the unofficial land speed record for the 225Gr truncated cast bullet in 45ACP.

Some details of the load components: W231 Charge Weight (5.7Grs) – Primer (WLP) – Case (Winchester) – Bullet (225Gr Truncated Cast) – OAL (1.205in)

The readily apparent problem a powder charge variance of some where between (5.7Grs) to a potential of (11.4Grs). The powder over charge probable cause is powder bridging in the measure dropping an overload or a double charge overload. Ultimately it’s my responsibility operator error. Bridging has not been a previous problem so the double charge is most likely what occurred. I’m not going to use the lame excuse that the RL 550B contributed to the problem with manual indexing as opposed auto indexing. I know how the tool operates/functions. The nettlesome aspect was being complacent and not being attendant to detail on my part.

The pistol a 1911 of recent manufacture is apparently none the worse for wear. The firing pin was blocked by prime cup material implanted on the slide breach face firing pin hole. I removed the firing pin, firing pin spring, and the extractor no damage noted. Punching the firing pin forward cleared the implanted primer cup material. Detailed disassembly and further examination with the aid of magnification no damage was noted.

Notice the bulge (not all the nicks are from this firing as the cases have been used numerous times)

Primer flattened and pierced

Slide breech face and firing pin hole nothing noticeable that would infer damage. Firing pin moves freely.. The extractor has no damage and functions with out a problem

Shooting double taps at 15 yards when the incident occurred. (The date printed on the magazine denotes placed in service.)

 

[Ron H.]

Sir, I'm glad no one was hurt.

How's the ejector look? FWIW, I once bent a Commander-type ejector with someone else's handloads. (A fine example of why you shouldn't shoot other people's handloads.)

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[dennis40x]

Originally posted by Ron H.:
Sir, I'm glad no one was hurt.

How's the ejector look? FWIW, I once bent a Commander-type ejector with someone else's handloads. (A fine example of why you shouldn't shoot other people's handloads.)

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

There’s no problem with the ejector. This is a fine example of me not paying attention to detail and that’s why posted this subject.

Simper Fi to you also.

 

[Paul5388]

Good report Dennis!

It's a good example of why I don't use a progressive. I just don't seem to have the concentration that would be necessary and it's getting worse as I get older.

 

[Spotteddog]

Glad you and the gun are OK Dennis!
Thanks for the post and the pictures!

 

[walnutred]

take a close look at your barrel link and take down pin. Also look for cracking on the frame where the pin goes through the frame.

 

[dennis40x]

Originally posted by walnutred:
take a close look at your barrel link and take down pin. Also look for cracking on the frame where the pin goes through the frame.

You may best believe I took a look at every thing. It was one of those expect the worst hope for the best situations when disassembling the 1911.

As an example a 44 Magnum with a 210Gr cast bullet with a charge weight of12.8Grs of W231 equals 37,000 Pressure C.U.P. I may have been @ 11.4Grs of W231 with the 225Gr cast bullet 45ACP load but the nettlesome aspect is I don’t know what I don’t know.

 

[Dale53]

dennis40x;
I suspect that you have a proper handle on probable cause - double charge.

There is NO mechanical safety (auto advance, powder checker, etc) that will totally eliminate a "screw up". The best, thing as you have suggested is "eternal vigilance".

I believe that I, too, had a double charge once (a Lee Pro 1000 auto advance). I was shooting a mild target load in a revolver and there were NO consequences but I KNEW what had happened. The very light load, doubled, gave me an overload but not a failure.

I redoubled my vigilance and have not had one since. I know people who have dropped a double charge with a single stage press. It CAN happen.

Just like a close call when driving an automobile, you get a "wake up call" to "pay attention"... Ignore that warning at your peril.

Dale53

 

[Sgt Preston]

Sgt Preston here. We're just glad you are OK & your gun wasn't damaged. Shxx Happens to us all sooner or later. Your gun looks to be an SA loaded model? (Dumb question I went back & looked at the breach photo & the signature was staring me in the face). Semper Fi. Preston

 

[Skip Sackett]

dennis40x,
Glad you weren't hurt. The firearm is gonna handle a one time event like that, most of the time!

Especially a SA. They are well made.

As for having a double charge, it can happen. I have had one, it was my fault, trying to be smarter than the device, and it was auto advance!

I did have a KB at a different time but that was because of data used from a Lyman #47 manual and not the manufacturer's data. Never again!

Still, nice target. Was that shot before or after?

Again, glad to have you safe and sound!

Thanks for your honesty too. Most folks would do the "blame game" thing.

There is no way you would have a bridge without a light charge too. If it bridged inside the measure, which a Dillon cant do and still deliver powder, there would have been a light charge into the box first. Did you have any squibs? Do you have an electronic scale? If it were me I would weigh each remaining round to see if there is a light one. I might not find it then either but I would still look!

FWIW

 

[dennis40x]

There is a possibility that I had less than a double charge. I may have brought the ram up noticed there was a problem at sizing, seating or crimping stations. Corrected that problem and failed to realize that the powder measure partially activated dumping powder in to the case. Then brought the ram up to full travel position and dispensed a full charge. On the other hand it could have been a double charge. I’m amazed that the case did not rupture.

Sgt Preston, you’ll notice that I’m slowly learning how to use the Cannon Power Shot SD790 IS.

smith crazy, I stopped firing the 1911 so the last hole in the target was from the over pressurized round. When you find yourself in a hole stop digging applies. I did go on to the Glock G17.

To the other respondents thank you for your concern. I thought the event was a good topic for discussion since there are those among us that use progressive reloaders.

 

[Sgt Preston]

Very nice picture work Dennis. One of these days I have to commit to learn how to take & display photos. Things sure were easier when I had a darkroom & used a 2 1/4 square twin lens Yachika. Whoops, I think I just gave away my age. You & your camera do a very nice job Dennis. Preston

 

[H Richard]

Sgt. Preston, we must be around the same vintage from your comments. I learned darkroom in a photo lab in England in 1960. Now, haven't even loaded film into my Nikon F2 in 5 years.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I may have brought the ram up noticed there was a problem at sizing, seating or crimping stations. Corrected that problem and failed to realize that the powder measure partially activated dumping powder in to the case.

Just to let you know, that is exactly what I did on my Square Deal B. I tried to "save" a round. What I should have done, and have subsequently made standard practice, is empty the press and start over, putting the primed cases aside to run one at a time at when the primer tube emptied.

Just to let everyone know, the Square Deal is an auto-indexing device, so it can be done. Not wisely. but it can be done.

Someone at work made a comment about an HMI program I designed. They said it was "idiot proof", my comment was; "The seem to keep making smarter idiots!"

 

[Hoptob]

Nice report and great pictures, Dennis. Glad you powder measure was only partially activated

Mike

 

[MrPhil]

Originally posted by smith crazy:

I may have brought the ram up noticed there was a problem at sizing, seating or crimping stations. Corrected that problem and failed to realize that the powder measure partially activated dumping powder in to the case.

Just to let you know, that is exactly what I did on my Square Deal B. I tried to "save" a round.

Saving a round cost me the cylinder in a nice M38 Body Guard. Using a SDB, I double stroked and double charged 4 grains of Bullseye. It definitely stung my hand. Fortunately the cylinder did not burst. It did swell.

It was an expensive lesson. Fortunately only the gun and my peace of mind were damaged.

 

[Mack Heath]

Allow me to present another possible explanation for your problem.

I ran Quickload using your data and a 225 TC that I have in my possession. The additioanl piece of data that I used is a bullet length of 0.625".

With your powder charge of 5.7 grains of WW-231 the pressure QL predicts is 21.900 psi. You likely were in +P territory. If you had double charged the round with the full 11.4 grains of powder, the pressures would have been in the ballpark of 123,000 psi.

However, if your bullet set back upon feeding by as little as 0.050", your presures with the 5.7 grain charge would have been in the 28,000 psi region. If it had set back by a full 0.100" the pressures would have climbed to 40,500 psi.

The reason I mention this possibility is that I have a factory 9mm that I got from a friend just this past week that he tried to feed in his Baer 9mm 1911 that has been set back.

 

[Hoptob]

Mack,

I have serious doubts about accuracy of QL pressure predictions. How can one explain that 0.1" setback would result in almost doubling the pressure?

Mike

 

[Mack Heath]

Originally posted by Hoptob:
Mack,

I have serious doubts about accuracy of QL pressure predictions. How can one explain that 0.1" setback would result in almost doubling the pressure?

Mike

How can one explain it? The wise ass answer is because it does. The QL predictions on that point are consistent with pressure tests that the NRA ran years ago with the target load of a 148 WC and 2.7 grains of Bullseye in the .38 Special. With normal seating the measured pressure was 8700 psi. When the bullet was seated 0.125" deeper the pressure climbed to 16,100 psi. The more serious answer is that you have changed the loading density. When the bullet sets back, you wind up with a smaller combustion chamber with the same amount of powder which drives the loading density up which in turn leads to higher pressures.

I am not making any claims on the numerical accurcy of the QL predictions. I have compared some of the predictions with specific powders in specific loads that have pressure data available in various manuals. With some powders the QL predictions agree quite well, with others the agreement is not so good. The important thing here is the basic trend. QL would indicate that a full double chagre would have put the pressures so far into the red zone that you would ahve expected to see much greater damage. With the bullet setting back into the case, the pressures would climb, but not so much as to be catastophic.

Then again, it is all just so much supposition on my part.