I have a little problem with my SW40VE

[Butch.1955]

I will do my best to make a long story short. It all started when I bought a set of night sights for my brand new Sigma 40 cal. Fitting the rear sight took more doing than I was comfortable with so I didn't inspect it as carefully as I might otherwise have when I finally got it to go on. I was just happy to get it on without ruining it. I put red loctite all the way around it and even into the set screw holes. I waited about ten or fifteen minutes, wiped off the excess real good and set the gun aside for the rest of the day. Next day I noticed that the rear sight wasn't centered properly. I used a vernier calliper on the one one-thousandth inch scale and measured how far off center it was. It wasn't much, but any at all was intolerable to me. I called the one and only gunsmith within fifty miles and explained the problem to him. Oh yeah, he seemed to understand exactly what I'd done and boasted that he could get that sight off in five minutes. So I took it to him. Well he didn't have it off in five minutes. One thing he determined right quick was that I'd stripped the set screw hex heads when I'd tried to take the sight off myself. He fired up his oxy acetylene torch and used a good hot blue flame and applied it to the rear end of the slide and rear sight for a few seconds. He did disassemble the striker and firing pin first...I think. I know he did take off the plastic back plate and I'm pretty sure he took out the striker and firing pin and things. He probably already knew what he was going to have to do to get the sight off, and so he knew that he needed to remove all the plastic parts. At least that's what I hope. After about ten or fifteen seconds with the flame he put the slide back in the vice and tapped it a couple times with a brass punch and the rear sight came off. Hallelujah! OK. So he said he could drill out the old set screws and replace them with slightly bigger ones, or we could just center the sight and loctite it down again. It was clear from the way he said it that the latter was the option he recommended. I still haven't got to the real problem yet, but HERE It COMES. He quenched the slide and then started to reassemble the parts. While he was reassembling the firing pin and striker parts he had this little plastic sleeve in his hand. He looked at it and said, "hmmm, that should be longer." He finished assembling the slide, and put the slide back on the frame. Then he racked the slide and took a pencil with a good eraser and inserted the pencil eraser first into the barrel. He pointed the gun up and pulled the trigger. The pencil jumped a couple inches but did not come out of the barrel. He then loaded about three rounds into the mag, got his hearing protectors, and went to a backroom where he apparently had a tank for test firing. I didn't go with him, and I didn't hear any shots either. He came back a couple minutes later and said the gun misfired. He told me it needed a firing pin channel sleeve, and that I should check back later in the week. That was the Monday before the fourth of July. I've called him at least once a week since. Yesterday he told me they sent the wrong end of the sleeve. IDK from nuttin, but I looked on the S&W website in the parts list for the SW40VE and I didn't see any such part, at least by the name "firing pin channel sleeve," which to the best of my recollection was the name of the part he told me it needed. However I did notice in my Internet searching that it is a common problem with Glocks, and the Sigma is so similar to some Glocks that it makes sense to me that the part would be similar also. But again, IDK. In the Glock the sleeve is one piece. This gunsmith and his dad are apparently very reputable smiths. I asked all over town here before I called him, and everyone I spoke to spoke very highly of him, even our one and only town barber. He and his dad do work for people all over the country. The walls in his machine shop were lined with guns awaiting repair. He does high dollar work. One worry is that my little gun problem is probably penny ante stuff to him. They build and repair match grade world champion pistols and rifles there, so I'm worried about how much priority he put on my work order. All I do know is that I want my pistol fixed and back in my hands as quick as possible. He's had it almost as long as I'd owned it previous to taking it to him. It was brand new. I'd only fired 29 rounds through it, and it worked flawlessly. Am I worrying needlessly? Does this all seem plausible to y'all with your far more extensive firearms experience than me? I mean I don't even have a copy of the work order he made out on it, but then there's his reputation...After having wrote all this out now it seems a little silly that I should be worried, but it is now going into four weeks, so...Anyway, that's all. Thank you. I hope he doesn't see this.

 

[HalfStack]

It was working before and now it's not working. Sound like he screwed up.

 

[Butch.1955]

I guess I already knew that. I guess I was looking for a second opinion on that. Thing is, what to do about it now? I mean, was that pencil thing a valid test? Was the fact that the pencil didn't jump as far as he apparently thought it should an indication of a malfunction, or just a ruse to cover the fact that he already knew he would have to replace the sleeve with a new one? And why so long to get a replacement part. I read on a Glock site that once the firing pin channel sleeve was removed it could not be used again. I don't know if the same holds true for the Sigma, but since the two are so similar it would seem probable to assume it is. It also seems logical to assume that once he'd tried several good hits on the rear sight with a brass tipped punch and couldn't budge it, he knew in his mind, but didn't bother to explain to me before hand or since, that he was going to have to use a flame to heat up the loctite, and before he could do that he had to remove all the plastic bits from the slide. I think I remember reading a comment on a gun forum, maybe this Smith and
Wesson forum where someone stated that a torch had to be employed to remove a loctited sight. In retrospect it hasn't been as long as it seems. I took it to him on Monday, July 2, and it's July 15th now. That's only two weeks. I think I said he'd had it three weeks in my description, so it's going into the third week, not the fourth. Having no experience with this kind of thing I don't know what a realistic expectation is and what isn't. IDK. And IDK what I don't know. That's part of the problem. I need someone with experience to advise me on what to expect and how long it should take. If that's even realistic.

 

[snubbyfan]

Keep us posted. I'd be interested to find out what the problem turned out to be.

 

[OKFC05]

If the sights had been put in right the first time.........

Installing Glock Sights with Dave Dawson - YouTube

 

[growr]

Were it me and my gun I would get into the hands of S&W and let them take care of you. Who better to repair it than the folks that made it?

Randy

PS. You will not regret doing so......

 

[Deltaboy]

Another example of shade tree gunsmithing gone wrong. Get it and send it to S&W.

 

[HalfStack]

Another example of shade tree gunsmithing gone wrong. Get it and send it to S&W.

This. He used a torch.

A good smith will have the tool to do the job right.

 

[snubbyfan]

I didn’t want to get into it but feel I’ve gotta say something. So many things done to this poor gun. Should have used Loctite 609 rather than red Loctite to set the sight. 609 disassembles at 250 degrees. Actually, if the sight fit snug, all you’d really need to do is put a couple of drops of blue Loctite on the grub screw and call it a day. An Oxy-acetylene torch is used to cut, weld and braze and is too hot for the application. Then he quenched it? Good way to ruin the temper. After all that he doesn’t reassemble with parts proven to function. The pencil test should have shot the pencil clear of the barrel. Good luck, I’d like to hear how all this works out.
I've made a fair amount of money repairing firearms neglected, abused and butchered by shade tree gunsmiths.

 

[RightArm]

A lawyer would cost way more than the gun, so go get it back. Don't pay him a cent. If you have already given him some payment, I hope it was a cedit card so you can call them and let them fight the charges. Dude should never have used a torch on your Sigma. You were taken advantage of because of your lack of knowledge. Auto mechanics do it all the time.
Next, call S&W and explain what happened. Hope they are kind to you because you probably lost the warranty when you started screwing with the sights. The gs definitely wiped out the warranty with that torch. Might cost you some dinero to get it fixed through S&W.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Sometimes you gotta bite the bullit and start over. Save your money and buy a new Sigma40ve. This time don't jack with it. Not everybody is meant to use tools.

 

[Butch.1955]

Lotta darn good advise here! I appreciate it! Live and learn as I always say. Having said that, I still trust these guys. It's not over till it's over. I called Smith and Wesson a little while ago and got the lowdown on what the part actually is. Then I called the gun shop. I just got through talking to his dad, and I have new founded optimism. His dad actually started the business; the son joined later. I didn't have to wheedle anything out of him. I explained that I had called Smith and Wesson, and that they had advised me there was no such thing as a firing pin channel liner. They identified the part as the striker assembly front and rear guide. That's close enough to what his son told me in our last telephone conversation, because he advised me that they sent him the part for the wrong end. Also S&W advised me that they didn't ship the striker assembly parts, that it was a factory only repair. His dad said that when Tim ordered the part S&W didn't tell him that it was a factory only repair and so they sent the wrong part. That's close enough to what I've learned through my telephone and e-mail conversations with Tim to be truthful. You know...it may be a personality flaw of mine, but I tend to trust people until I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary. So anyway, the dad advised me that they were able to order the correct parts from a third party dealer. IDK if it's an after market parts manufacturer or some third party contracted or whatever or however otherwise authorized to sell authentic S&W parts, but it's just two little plastic parts. A front guide for the striker assembly and a rear guide for the striker assembly. Doesn't sound like rocket science. IDK why the part would be bad in the first place. It may be because of the heat I applied to the area when I tried to remove that loctited down rear XS Big Dot sight. I used the tiny little allen wrench tool to engage the hex head set screws and applied heat directly to the allen wrench with a 250 watt soldering gun. That's a lotta heat. I could have damaged it myself. I did succeed in stripping the hex head set screws. Or Tim could have damaged it in disassembling it. I'm pretty sure though that he disassembled the striker and firing pin assembly before he applied the heat. And his father did tell me that once those delicate little plastic guides are removed they can't be used again as they most often get damaged in removing them. That jives with what I learned from my own Internet searches.

So okay...if it were just the gun misfiring on me and nothing else I would have sent it back to the factory even though it wouldn't have been a warranted repair, because I modified the sear assembly for a lighter trigger pull. That was before I fired the 29 rounds through the gun, flawlessly, and most of the second the second magazine just as quickly as I could pull the trigger. However if I'd installed the XS Big Dot rear sight properly I might not be in this situation now. Having failed to do that, I must take responsibility for any collateral damage.

It's also possible that even if I had installed the rear sight perfectly, and thus not ended up having to take the pistol to a gun smith, had there really existed a problem with the striker assembly that occurred during my firing the gun or since, and had I encountered a situation where I had to used the pistol for self defense, I could be dead now. So we'll see how it turns out.

 

[snubbyfan]

Well, live and learn. I know how much fun it is to modify things in order to increase their performance. Sometimes a little extra research is required. Now that you know what not to do, you're next gun project'll go a lot smoother with better results the first time.
What's up with the Sigma? Got some good news for us?

 

[Butch.1955]

No, it's still at the gunsmith's. I went to visit it today to satisfy my curiosity. Apparently there is some difficulty with S&W in identifying the exact part, ad I was advised by the gunsmith that They have sent him the wrong part twice. I hanging on. I think when I get it back I'll see what I can get for it in a trade in on a new M&P 45.

 

[Butch.1955]

OK. I finally got it back this Monday. They had it for thirty-five days. The guy had a horrible time getting the correct part from Smith and Wesson, as it isn't on the exploded view of an earlier version of the pistol, and I think he said it also isn't listed in the Smith and Wesson parts list for the SW40VE, not sure about that though. They sent the wrong part three times. There are two other plastic parts in the striker assembly or firing pin channel guide, and they sent him the same wrong part twice, and the other wrong part once, so in this case the fourth time's the charm. It's good as new now though and all that for only twenty bucks, that's a two and one zero and a period. Can't beat that with a stick. They do excellent work and are friendly and obliging, as are you all. Thank you.

 

[snubbyfan]

That's great Butch. Now that it's back, how's it shooting? If it's back to being dependable for just $20 that's fantastic.

 

[Varthrias]

It might be late to post here, but I have a S&W SD40 VE, and I have used that "pencil test" before on pistols. Use it to test if the firing pin is striking without doing any damage to it. My SD40 VE fires just fine and when I do that test the pencil only jumps a bit. The only gun I have ever had that the pencil jumped crazy high on was a little Keltec .380 so don't be scared that that test meant a lot. Its not going to fly out of the gun.
Anyways, hope your gun gets fixed and things work out for you brother!

 

[Butch.1955]

That's great Butch. Now that it's back, how's it shooting? If it's back to being dependable for just $20 that's fantastic.

Thanks. I can't tell exactly because I haven't shot at any paper targets since I got it back, but I'm hitting what I am shooting at, from about thirty feet or so. It seems fine. I like that XS Big Dot sight system. I had to repaint the white line on the rear sight. I think maybe the flame Tim used to deactivate the red Loctite dulled the bluing somewhat. The whole sight body is grey now when before it was, I don't know exactly how much darker it was, but it was noticably darker. I'm gonna get a gun blue pen and touch it up on of these days. Anyway I digress, the pistol is shooting plenty-plenty accurate enough to do what it was designed to be used for.