ID Help S&W M&P .38/200?

[pd1964]

I came across a seller selling this gun and he thought it was a model 10 and .38 Spl. Obviously not but I’m in Canada and RCMP had the wrong description and caliber. They then changed it to a .38 M&P model of 1905 4th change in .38 S&W. The caliber is correct but I’m pretty sure this model was all .38 Spl. So I’m thinking .38/200? It looks to have British proof marks but then I’d expect the stocks to be the plain smooth ones. I don’t know if these number to the gun. Could this a commercial one with the brighter bluing and checkered stocks? Thanks for any help, I’m at work and don’t have my catalog.

IMG_1648 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr
IMG_8976 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr
IMG_8978 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr

 

[chiefdave]

It looks like a Pre Victory British Service Revolver in remarkably good original condition to me. I'm sure the experts will be along shortly with more detail and an aprox. shipping date

 

[pd1964]

This shows the proof marks better:
IMG_8977 1 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr

 

[Shark Bait]

That looks like a nice 5 inch British Service Revolver. I have a 6 inch gun with a somewhat lower serial number that letters as a BSR and it has the same stocks, which do letter and number to the gun.

 

[pd1964]

That looks like a nice 5 inch British Service Revolver. I have a 6 inch gun with a somewhat lower serial number that letters as a BSR and it has the same stocks, which do letter to the gun.

Thanks that helps a lot must be what it is. I figured 1942 so I think that would be close. Looks like they’ll be doing another change of description when I get it. Good to know they came with those stocks I had another years ago and they were smooth. Hopefully they number to the gun.

 

[Absalom]

Yes, this is a pre-Victory British Service Revolver shipped to Britain likely via the British Purchasing Commission in late 1940/early 1941.

It has the acceptance marks from the Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield on the back frame and the crossed-pennant military proof in front of the cylinder.

It is indeed in very good condition.

PS: Shark Bait’s gun is a bit unusual in that it does not have the British markings. These were generally applied until the beginning of Lend-lease shipments in late fall 1941.

 

[pd1964]

This post from 7 years ago answers all my questions. Didn’t see it earlier:

From about spring of 1940 until April, 1942, four, five, and six-inch barrels were supplied on .38-200 guns. Initial finish was commercial blue. Later, it became a duller brush blue, and after the 1942 date, smooth wooden stocks replaced the checkered ones with a silver medallion.

At that time, the finish changed to a Parkerized look called Midnight Black, I think. And only five-inch barrels were furnished. I think the reason why they wanted five-inch guns is that contemporary Enfield and Webley revolvers also had five-inch barrels, and the Pattern 1937 holsters were made only for that barrel length.

The US guns were made mostly in four-inch form, with a modest number of two-inchers. These were all in .38 Special. All of the Victory Models should probably be the dull finished items with smooth stocks. That will distinguish them from the regular blued guns.

If the gun has that look, I consider it a Victory Model, regardless of whether the serial no. begins with a V. Others are more picky.

It is strange to see these guns selling for more than better-finished M&P's now, when they were once considered rough-finished surplus stuff. But their historical role is now better appreciated, and good ones are less common.

T-Star

 

[Absalom]

That is a nice summary, with one minor nitpick: The smooth walnut stocks started several months earlier than the April 1942 date given. According to contemporaneous factory documentation, the change fell into January 1942 around serial #880,000. And the standardizarion of the BSR to the 5” also had concluded earlier, by fall 1941.

 

[pd1964]

That is a nice summary, with one minor nitpick: The smooth walnut stocks started several months earlier than the April 1942 date given. According to contemporaneous factory documentation, the change fell into January 1942 around serial #880,000. And the standardizarion of the BSR to the 5” also had concluded earlier, by fall 1941.

So I guess that would narrow mine down to the last couple months of 1941 then.

 

[DWalt]

780218 likely shipped around mid-1941. I list 773895 as shipping on 5/29/41. By the end of 1941, SNs were into the high 8xxxxx range.

 

[pd1964]

780218 likely shipped around mid-1941. I list 773895 as shipping on 5/29/41. By the end of 1941, SNs were into the high 8xxxxx range.

Thanks for that. I guess they were really pumping them out that year.

 

[Absalom]

So I guess that would narrow mine down to the last couple months of 1941 then.

Mid-1941. I misread the second digit when I typed my post #6. I have one in the 767— range that shipped in May, same destination, so your 780— almost certainly went out within the next few months.

 

[Shark Bait]

PS: Shark Bait’s gun is a bit unusual in that it does not have the British markings. These were generally applied until the beginning of Lend-lease shipments in late fall 1941.

Other documents indicate that my gun was bought by the BPC, but shipped to Canada. Not sure of the meaning of that.

 

[DWalt]

Thanks for that. I guess they were really pumping them out that year.

Not as much as later. From 1942 until war's end S&W produced approximately 900,000 revolvers, an average of over 20,000 per month during that period. Not many were needed (or made) during 1945, as the war was rapidly winding down by then.

 

[Absalom]

Other documents indicate that my gun was bought by the BPC, but shipped to Canada. Not sure of the meaning of that.

That happened and would explain the absence of Enfield stamps. Is there a Canadian broad-arrow-in-a-C somewhere?

Have we discussed your gun here before? This appears vaguely familiar

 

[Targets Guy]

That is a nice revolver. I have a 5" barrel, .38 special s/n 765111. It shipped 4/41.

 

[Shark Bait]

That happened and would explain the absence of Enfield stamps. Is there a Canadian broad-arrow-in-a-C somewhere?

Have we discussed your gun here before? This appears vaguely familiar

No stamps, and yes we have. Don't want to highjack this thread.

Early 38/200 at LGS (Factory Letter Received)