Identify Please

[FrozenTundra]

Serial # 530xxx
Stamped on inside of frame 44214

The guy said it was a 35 but I didn't think so, I ended up giving e him $100 for it in the early 90's

 

[Mike McLellan]

I think you have a .22/.32 hand ejector. Basically a .22 built on the larger I frame that was nomally used for a .32 caliber. It looks like a fairly late version, as in the mid '30s.
The real scoop, and value estimate will be provided by the experts who will be along shortly. A hundred bucks? Wow. Very nice, indeed.

 

[DCWilson]

EDITED TO ADD: My identification is incorrect and my comments about model and box label are wrong for the reasons mentioned in posts below. I will leave the original language of this post unedited so that further comments in this thread won't seem off point in case they refer to it. I now think this gun was originally a .22/32 Kit Gun (see post 8 below).

FURTHER EDITING: Nope, not a Kit Gun originally. The letter posted below shows it shipped as a Heavy Frame Target. So by accident I was half correct in my original comments, though I missed the barrel replacement with a postwar part.

That is a .22/32 Heavy Frame Target (or just .22/32 Target) from the late 1930s. I have 533038, which shipped in January 1940. A similar model with 530 as the first three digits shipped in 1937.

This is what the label would have said on the end the box your gun came in:

Your front sight has been replaced with a custom blade. The stocks may be original. If they aren't, they are identical to the ones that would have come on the gun. Maybe they are numbered, maybe not. The company did it both ways at different times.

Around SN 525000, if I recall correctly, the cylinder was lengthened slightly so that the cartridge rims would be recessed rather than left unsupported to the side. Before that, the rear cylinder face was just flat and the rims rested on it without any surrounding support.

Some 20 years later the descendant model of this gun was labeled the Model 35, but it had a different barrel and frame profile. The prewar and postwar transitional models have better proportion in my eyes.

$100? Bargain. Even a little worn it's worth at least five times that now. Maybe more.

 

[FrozenTundra]

Here are a few more pics:

 

[FrozenTundra]

This was what the dealer had hanging on it, he was asking $225 but when I pointed out the grips were different and it wasn't in the best condition he said give me a hundred bucks since I don't know what the &^% it is.

 

[Masterpiece]

Thanks Rich,

I thought something looked a bit off & as I suspected your Revolver "Is", in part at least, a Model 35 after all!! Evidence of this is the Full-Length Ribbed Barrel!! Given that, I'd say the Frt. Sight is likely the Original Model 35 Patridge Sight, but it's been modified for one reason or the other by a previous owner!!

Sorry I wasn't clear enough in my PM, but could you post a Photo of the Flat on the underside of the Barrel where the Serial No. is stamped, with the Cylinder open, so we can see if there are any markings indicating the work may have been done at the Factory?? It would also help if you could post one of the Left Side of the Grip Frame, with the Grips removed, to see if there is a Rework Date stamped there!!

Regarding the various Stamps on the Butt of the Grips, I doubt they have any meaning related to S&W...at least nothing like I've ever encountered!!

 

[Hondo44]

Rich,

I could see in your very 1st photo that you actually have a hybrid gun. It's a pre war 22/32 Target (6") or 22/32 Kit Gun (4") from the time period indicated by David. But it has a post war Model 35, 6" barrel installed.

The barrel was notched to fit the 1930's vintage barrel style extractor knob. Mod 35s came with straight rods and didn't need the notch.

It is most likely a 22/32 Target gun with the the original 6" barrel replaced because it had problems but could be although much less likely, a replaced 4" barrel on a 22/32 Kit Gun because a 6" barrel was preferred. And the newer M 35 barrel with barrel rib was all that was available at the time. You'll notice the barrel rib does not match the front of the rounded frame top. Check the bottom of the barrel for a serial # with the extractor rod open and see if it matches the # on the grip forestrap.

REVISED: I SEE WHILE I WAS TYPING MY GOOD FRIEND MASTERPIECE HAS MADE THE SAME OBSERVATION.

 

[DCWilson]

Boy, I missed that too! I didn't see the rib on the top of the barrel until I looked at the second batch of photos a moment ago.

Yup, postwar barrel screwed onto a prewar .22/32 frame.

It saddens me to say this, but I think your gun was originally a prewar Kit Gun. The serial number I can see on the cylinder and forestrap in your second set of photos falls right in the middle of a bunch of .22/32 Kit Guns, which were the uncommon .22/32 revolvers of the late 1930s. Your gun is bracketed by KGs 530151 and 530170, both of which I own. I also know that 530157 is a Kit Gun, though I don't own it. Kit Guns were like the Heavy Frame Targets, but with four inch barrels instead of six inch. Only about 1300 were made. For whatever reason, the person who put the long barrel on this gun wanted it more than he wanted the four inch barrel. Perhaps it was a preference, or perhaps the original barrel was bulged or rusted out and the owner took the first barrel he could get to restore the gun to any kind of functionality.

Sorry I didn't notice the tell-tale barrel rib in my haste to reply earlier, but at least you now have an explanation from the more observant members of the forum for the mixed features of this revolver.

I have to change my notion of its value. Collector value is nil for a put-together gun, but it is probably still worth $250-300 as a shooter.

 

[Masterpiece]

It saddens me to say this, but I think your gun was originally a prewar Kit Gun.

David,

Very sad indeed!! I had my suspicions about that as well, but don't have near the data you've accumulated to make a educated enough assessment as to whether or not it may have been one!!

By the way, you're slippin' Buddy as I can't believe you missed the Barrel Rib when you posted your original comments...Ha!!~Ha!!

 

[DCWilson]

David,

[Y]ou're slippin' Buddy as I can't believe you missed the Barrel Rib when you posted your original comments...Ha!!~Ha!!

My embarrassment is total. Again.

This is a useful lesson about rushing to make a definitive statement when you haven't taken the time to make a complete visual inspection.

 

[Hondo44]

Been there, done that! But don't worry, it only gets worse!

 

[FrozenTundra]

Thanks for all the info, it was informative and fun, like S&W detectives

 

[Masterpiece]

The serial number I can see on the cylinder and forestrap in your second set of photos falls right in the middle of a bunch of .22/32 Kit Guns, which were the uncommon .22/32 revolvers of the late 1930s. Your gun is bracketed by KGs 530151 and 530170, both of which I own.

David,

It may be my eyes focusing wrong, but I believe Rich's Revolver may have had a bit more work done on it at one time than first caught my eye!! Reason being, I believe the Cylinder may have been changed, or Incorrectly Stamped as well, because the Serial No. on the Forestrap looks to be 530768, with the 8 possibly being an over-stamped 3 & the Cylinder Serial No. being 530168 where I'm thinking you where getting the notion this may have been in the block of Early Pre-War Kit Guns you mentioned!! It may just be me, but take a look & see what you think!!

 

[Masterpiece]

Been there, done that! But don't worry, it only gets worse!

Ya' know, it's been happening to me more & more too...Ya' think it has something to do with "OLD AGE"??....Ha!!~Ha!!

 

[Masterpiece]

Rich,

Thanks for the last batch of photos!! Judging by the one of the Barrel Flat, the Diamond Stamp there is a good indication of a Replaced Part & the Barrel may very well have been installed at the Factory even though there are no other Rework Stamps on the Frame under the Grips!!

I also see that the Serial No. on the Grip, if I'm reading it correctly, is 530180...Correct or Not?? Just curious!! Very Interesting Revolver!!

 

[DCWilson]

I stumbled over the seeming numeral inconsistencies too, but taking the dominant direction of illumination into consideration, I finally decided that they were the same number. I am pretty sure the fourth digit is a 1, the next a 6, and the last an 8. I have had trouble with these deep-stamped blocky numbers before, but if you can move your angle of illumination around you will eventually see that only one numeral is likeliest.

I have had guns struck so deeply that I could not tell for a long time if some numerals I was trying to discern were a 3, 5, 6, 8 or 9!

I also believe the stocks carry the same number I see on the forestrap and the cylinder, though since the impressions are in wood the chance exists for a different type of deformation.

At least the 530 portion is clear on all parts!

Rich, you are the only one who can give the gun a close inspection. Can you look at the numbers on the stocks, frame and cylinder and let us know if they are the same? In case you are a glutton for punishment, the same number should be found on the underside of the ejector star and on the short face of the crane that is parallel to the front face of the cylinder. You may be able to read that one with side lighting while you peer through one charge hole.

 

[FrozenTundra]

On the star all I can say for sure is 530xxx might have to have some younger eyes look at it tomorrow.

 

[Masterpiece]

I have had trouble with these deep-stamped blocky numbers before.

David,

I know exactly what you mean about discerning some of these Blocky Numbers because sometimes the upper body of the shaft that the Number is cut into gets impressed into the metal/wood as well if stamped too deep or not quite straight on!!

So after looking this over for about the tenth time I believe those are the most likely reasons why the (1) in the Forestrap No. was throwing me off so much because it looks to have been not only stamped on the Frame a bit cockeyed, but also not quite straight on in comparison to the others giving me the impression that it was a (7)!!

The Last No., which I mistook as an 8, was definitely my mistaken identity as I forgot that the Early 3's were most always flat across the top...not rounded...plus the fact that I completely looked right past the fact that there was another 3 just Two Numerals back to compare it to!! Hmmm....must be the "Old" thing again...Ha!!~Ha!!

 

[FrozenTundra]

Roy Jinks says its a .22/32 Heavy Frame Target Bekert Model

 

[DCWilson]

Rich, thanks for following up. Finding out that this gun letters with an original six-inch barrel rather than the four-inch barrel I suspected introduces a new note of uncertainty into my Kit Gun research. If some of the guns produced with numbers in what I thought were Kit Gun-only serial number blocks were actually Heavy Frame Targets, there may be fewer Kit Guns than I thought there were.

Again, I appreciate the new and extremely relevant information.