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Idiot scratch
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mike campbell
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I'd say the loss is commensurate with any similar scratch elsewhere on the gun.....just another minor blemish in no way impacting the serviceability. Doesn't suggest it was abused, just handled by a rookie. On a stainless gun it can usually be removed fairly easily, the higher the polish, the easier. I polished out one a Kimber stainless such that it defies detection.
639's are pretty hard to come by - this is one time where I would look past the scratch and buy it - if you haven't already! I no longer have a 639 but IIRC the sides of the frame are polished so you should be able to at least minimize the scratch with some polishing as noted above. More difficult if it is bead-blasted in that area ... 
Triathloncoach
Member
Use very fine scotchbrite. Google it for idiot marks. It works great.
Hello forum;
I admit I don't know much about Model 639, which I realize is the subject of this post, but I thought I would throw in 2 cents worth on the "idiot scratch" terminology.
I first ran across the term many years back accumulating and collecting WWI and WWII, Korea, etc. 1911's and 1911 A1's. Seldom, if ever, did I run across a war horse that did NOT have the scratch. In addition, harking back to my Army days I for one, was actually trained to place left thumb over the slide stop pivot point during reassembly thus (in Sgt. Negon's training us new "cruits" instructions/opinion) providing positive pressure while sliding lever up to ball indent engagement......thus actually creating the "idiot scratch". Maybe that was only one instructor at one post, but thousands of other GI's must have got the same story beat into their heads too.
All 45 1911A1 that I encountered over two tours in all arms rooms around the Army posts I was assigned had the scratch, some deep, some slight, but always there.
Now many years later, having bought, sold, still have these guys I do not find lack of scratch to add to value nor do I find that presence of scratch to detract from value, during the negotiation process.
Even some guns that appear totally unissued sometimes have the faintest evidence in the Parkerizing.
So...........my 2 cents..... the Colt below went for $2,600 (because of the Colt logo...nothing else), the Remington Rand went for $2,000, the Ithaca I still have, and the Argentine sistema Colt is up for sale at $700. On some even going down to the frame, it is hard to see the scratch, but it is there.
Sorry for the drift but maybe others know better about the origin of the term idiot scratch...I know I sure wasn't going to point out to a Sgt that he was showing me how to scratch up US Government Property as I'm pretty sure that I would have been assigned a lot more KP than I already had "earned"
I admit I don't know much about Model 639, which I realize is the subject of this post, but I thought I would throw in 2 cents worth on the "idiot scratch" terminology.
I first ran across the term many years back accumulating and collecting WWI and WWII, Korea, etc. 1911's and 1911 A1's. Seldom, if ever, did I run across a war horse that did NOT have the scratch. In addition, harking back to my Army days I for one, was actually trained to place left thumb over the slide stop pivot point during reassembly thus (in Sgt. Negon's training us new "cruits" instructions/opinion) providing positive pressure while sliding lever up to ball indent engagement......thus actually creating the "idiot scratch". Maybe that was only one instructor at one post, but thousands of other GI's must have got the same story beat into their heads too.
All 45 1911A1 that I encountered over two tours in all arms rooms around the Army posts I was assigned had the scratch, some deep, some slight, but always there.
Now many years later, having bought, sold, still have these guys I do not find lack of scratch to add to value nor do I find that presence of scratch to detract from value, during the negotiation process.
Even some guns that appear totally unissued sometimes have the faintest evidence in the Parkerizing.
So...........my 2 cents..... the Colt below went for $2,600 (because of the Colt logo...nothing else), the Remington Rand went for $2,000, the Ithaca I still have, and the Argentine sistema Colt is up for sale at $700. On some even going down to the frame, it is hard to see the scratch, but it is there.
Sorry for the drift but maybe others know better about the origin of the term idiot scratch...I know I sure wasn't going to point out to a Sgt that he was showing me how to scratch up US Government Property as I'm pretty sure that I would have been assigned a lot more KP than I already had "earned"
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The Marine Gunny Sgt. who taught me in OCS must have learned from your Sergeant. I think it's only in more recent times that fixation on cosmetic perfection has become such a big deal. We used to be much more concerned with reliability and accuracy than any sort of small scratches.
Arik
Member
I always found it strange the way many gun owners react to scratches. It's a very militant all or nothing mentality. A scratch means the gun was abused. And abuse is any other then being careful handled, shot little and often completely disassembled, thoroughly cleaned and waxed. And often the guns people say they don't care about are the ones they carry when it should be the other way around
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I defy anyone to put my Government Model back together without putting the idiot scratch on it. It simply will not go back together without the upwards pressure it takes to make one.
i have bought most of my guns used, and will keep doing so. (vehicles too as a matter of fact) so, i have seen a fair number of scratches, broken parts, wooden stocks that could be mistaken for firewood, and so on. scratches on hunting shotgun receivers may mean negligence, (or hard use as others like to think) an idiot scratch, or any other mark of this sort, to me, it means mishandling. (or even worse, in the case that sheepdawg mentions above, manufacturing defect.) therefore, if i see a potential buy gun with such mishandling marks, i simply investigate further. are obvious parts been put together properly? are there small parts/springs missing because the guy could not put them together? and take it from there. (seen lots of remington 1100 and browning a5, trying to operate with their gas rings backwards or missing their friction rings altogether. and yes, stripped screws or scratches next to the trigger group pins, would reveal mishandling from a yard away. i would not simply walk away from a pistol because of this one scratch, (especially on stainless that may be fixed easily) but a further look into it for sure. especially, if its missing something that a replacement can not be found since its discontinued.
LOL!!!!!
I've admitted before that I put a nasty "idiot scratch" in my Colt Gold Cup .45's slide way back when some 40 years ago. Ticked me off good.
Took decades before I finally got over it! 
Well, mostly over it. 
On the other hand, I bought my Model 645 with a light idiot scratch on the frame. It didn't bother me a bit because: a) Someone else did it (not moi!) and, b) Being a stainless steel frame, it could easily be fixed if I was so inclined to mess with it.
How much does it affect the value of a particular gun?
Obviously, it's a lot more serious (i.e., more noticeable) on a slide than on a frame... and, obviously, it's worse on a blued gun than on a stainless gun since a scratch on stainless can usually be fixed one way or another.On a Model 639's frame, like on my Model 645, it shouldn't be that hard to remedy. The reduction in value, unless particularly bad, shouldn't be much at all.
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shottist
Absent Comrade
Idiot scratches are only made by idiots. Just my opinion
Well then mine comes from the idiot at Colt who built it.
29aholic
Member
If you will file a slight bevel on the upper back of the slide stop it will ease the insertion tremendously. Dont do it on the lower part or the magazine follower will ride over it.
loeman
Member
Reading this thread reminded me of my vintage (1952) Sig P210. Engaging the safety on these guns just one time creates a long, ugly arcing scratch. I don't think it hurts the value any because that's the way it was built. But dang it's ugly on an otherwise pristine gun. I guess those who are very picky would never engage the safety!
BTW, idiot scratches on two of my 3rd Gens doesn't bother me much. I wish they weren't there but they are and I'm not going to do anything about it.
BTW, idiot scratches on two of my 3rd Gens doesn't bother me much. I wish they weren't there but they are and I'm not going to do anything about it.
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Kadonny
Member
Lots of people do it without scatching it, including me. The key is to get the plunger to move inward to allow the slide stop to go directly into the frame without any vertical movement or with a slight upwards movement. I have a bunch of 1911s, all but one don't have scratch and the one that does was put in there before I really learned to to correctly install the slide stop as not to scratch.
It can be done.
bigggbbruce
Member
I thought I would throw in 2 cents worth on the "idiot scratch" terminology.
I first ran across the term many years back accumulating and collecting WWI and WWII, Korea, etc. 1911's and 1911 A1's. Seldom, if ever, did I run across a war horse that did NOT have the scratch. In addition, harking back to my Army days I for one, was actually trained to place left thumb over the slide stop pivot point during reassembly thus (in Sgt. Negon's training us new "cruits" instructions/opinion) providing positive pressure while sliding lever up to ball indent engagement......thus actually creating the "idiot scratch". Maybe that was only one instructor at one post, but thousands of other GI's must have got the same story beat into their heads too.
.I know I sure wasn't going to point out to a Sgt that he was showing me how to scratch up US Government Property as I'm pretty sure that I would have been assigned a lot more KP than I already had "earned"
Absolute fact.
It's an assembly mark.
Idiot scratch is when the slide stop goes past the slide notch and causes a semi circle on the slide.
Seen it ...
Except for when you're really a klutz like moi and manage to get the slide!
(Not mine but same idea
)I have to agree fully that if we are talking about an issued 1911, owned by taxpayers, issued by the Military and quite often used by multiple different soliders, serviced by multiple different armorers and ultimately used for training and COMBAT originally, regardless who owns it now (and for what reason), this scratch means nothing and if I were teaching enlisted men to handle the equipment, we would ALL be making grooves in frames and maybe even slides and I wouldn't care even 1%.
If I own the pistol and it has the scratch, it annoys me. If a friend did it to my pistol, I want him tarred & feathered. If I did it, it would keep me awake at night. Especially if I did it after handling handguns for 30yrs.
Certainly, it can and often will affect the price or desirability of a gun that is for sale. To argue otherwise is fine, but it's a baseless opinion that isn't supported by reality.
Oh for sure, I will absolutely chase down and buy a used pistol with the idiot scratch, and I expect that scratch to be reflected in the price. If it isn't, I'll move along and all is well.
NOTE: if we are talking S&W pistols in the S&W forum, some of you may wish to go look at one or more of your 1-2-3rd Gens because a whole damn lot of them get their own idiot scratch on the bottom rear of the slide, where ham-fisted reassembly smacks ejector (left side) and firing pin lock and decock lever (right side.)
Go look, especially if you have a formerly issued duty gun.
If I own the pistol and it has the scratch, it annoys me. If a friend did it to my pistol, I want him tarred & feathered. If I did it, it would keep me awake at night. Especially if I did it after handling handguns for 30yrs.
Certainly, it can and often will affect the price or desirability of a gun that is for sale. To argue otherwise is fine, but it's a baseless opinion that isn't supported by reality.
Oh for sure, I will absolutely chase down and buy a used pistol with the idiot scratch, and I expect that scratch to be reflected in the price. If it isn't, I'll move along and all is well.
NOTE: if we are talking S&W pistols in the S&W forum, some of you may wish to go look at one or more of your 1-2-3rd Gens because a whole damn lot of them get their own idiot scratch on the bottom rear of the slide, where ham-fisted reassembly smacks ejector (left side) and firing pin lock and decock lever (right side.)
Go look, especially if you have a formerly issued duty gun.
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