IMR 3031: Safer At Reduced Loads?

[Duckford]

I'm getting my 375 H&H ready for deer season, this year's project is using the 235 grain Speer soft point to kill a white tail without excessive damage. Without the SR line, I took a long look at my caliber specific manual and found IMR 3031 to be the next slowest powder. One source within the manual said 63.0 grains is minimum, another just a few pages down says 64.0 grains. Which got me thinking....

If 45-70 Gubmit can run cast bullets and jacketed bullets at very low pressure using 3031, according to list book sources, is 3031 safe enough for anything under 63.0 grains in the Holland and Holland? Does it have any more play than the usual slower burning rifle powders, or is this a dangerous assumption? Is there any other way to reduce velocity safely without the old SR line?

Also, if anyone has used the 235 grain Speer, am I better off at 2,400+fps instead of trying to go slower for deer?

 

[rockquarry]

I wouldn't go lower than recommended book powder charge with 3031 or most anything else. H4895 is an exception. You can substantially reduce minimum book charges safely with that powder; others on this forum should know the percentage of such a reduction.

I used to shoot cast bullets in a .375 H&H. The case has such a huge powder capacity that I found hangfires inevitable and had to use more than the recommended minimum charge with some powders to avoid this. Magnum primers also helped. I've never tried IMR3031 with cast or jacketed bullets in the .375 H&H. The Hodgdon manual shows a minimum charge of 56 grains IMR3031 with the 235 Speer.

 

[oldman10mm]

IMR3031, a medium burn rate, is my favorite rifle powder. use it for 17Rem, 223, 243Win, 308Win, and 30-06. Even though it's a medium burn rate powder, it's still too slow for reduced loads. I use IMR4198 for reduced loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not sure why you will be using a 375 H&H for White Tail but if you are looking for a reduced load I would use H4895. Hodgdon supplies reduced load data for that powder that is tested and safe.

http://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

 

[max503]

There are newer powders that you can reduce. I am not familiar with them personally because I shoot cast bullets over powders like Unique and Red Dot - and I've still got a couple pounds of SR 4759. However, I've had very good luck with a cast, gas checked bullet in the 30-30 over IMR 3031. I don't know about jacketed.
I would not reduce 3031 below what the books say. If I had a 375 H&H it would never see a jacketed bullet. But you do have a pretty cavernous case to deal with there.

 

[boatbum101]

I too use H4895 for reduced loads in many rifle calibers . IIRC you can reduce down to 60% of a full charge for that particular bullet weight w/o problems . I use it with cast bullet loads in 6.5 X 55 , 30/06 , 358 Win & others .

 

[505Gibbs]

I would strongly suggest a call to Speer at your estimated muzzle velocity & ask if the 235g will expand on something as 'soft' as a deer[barring bone impact].
My guess is that these were intended for some of the smaller African game
with tougher hides than a deer. The larger antelope varieties I would imagine. Just my $0.02!

 

[Nevada Ed]

+1 on H4895 for a reduced load. Hodgdon has it at 2616fps with the 235gr bullet.

It also list 4831 at 2686fps but with a lot more powder.
H205 is listed starting out at 2589fps.

My Speer manual has 3031 starting at 2735fps which is the slowest
and also uses the least amount of powder, which might be a good thing?

My brother, back in the 70's shot a deer with his brand new 375 H&H Winchester rifle........ one time !!

Good luck on your hunt.

 

[Duckford]

Lyman 49th lists:

Minimum 62.0 grains at 2418fps and 40,200 CUP
Maximum 69.0 grains at 2761fps at 51,400 CUP

One Book/One Caliber on the 300 and 375 H&H Magnums
Speer Bullets Section Reads:

Start charge: 63.0 grains at 2478fps
Maximum charge: 67.0 grains at 2,702fps

Speer's information section says loaded down to 2,600fps the 235 grain soft point is a potential deer round that may even cause less damage than faster yet less powerful rounds of smaller caliber.

Neither the IMR or Hodgdon powders section lists data for the 3031.

Lyman lists the bullet and 3031 at:
Starting grains 64.0 grains at 2597fps
Maximum grains 71.0 grains at 2849fps

My father's old NRA book has listings for the 235 grain Speer and SR powder, saying even at 1,500-1,800fps with reduced loads as a potential short range deer load.

The vast differences in loading data are very, very concerning. Hodgdon's internet listing of maximum is BELOW most other sources MINIMUM. If the other listed official sources are to be believed, the website's current listing is suspect, or something has been discovered in testing since, or a change in classic IMR 3031? In any case, it might be further proof that 3031 might be usable at lower charges without blowing up, and the differences even within the literature differ so greatly it is surprising, more than most rifle powders.

Better fire off an e-mail to Hogdgon.

 

[Duckford]

Think I've spotted the problem, perhaps. All of the IMR powder loads for the 235 grain Speer in 375 H&H on Hodgdon's website seem to be wrong, in that the real minimum loads are now listed as maximum loads and the website listed minimums are just 10% reductions of the minimum load! This is potentially very dangerous. I sent a message to Hodgdon, wouldn't hurt if someone from there reads these here forums either.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Like mentionned above,H4895 is deemed safe to use as low as 60% of the max listed.The recommendation being made by Hogdon,the max safe load to figure the 60% of would logically be the max load from Hogdon(and not from any other).
Ed Harris,an authority in my book has suggested that IMR 4064 can also be slightly reduced a bit from max but not as much as the 60%factor.
I've used IMR 4064 at aprox 70% from max in 30-30 with Magnum primer with good accuracy with cast bullets.
If you decide to go that way,you are experimenting...you are on your own!

 

[rockquarry]

Like mentionned above,H4895 is deemed safe to use as low as 60% of the max listed.The recommendation being made by Hogdon,the max safe load to figure the 60% of would logically be the max load from Hogdon(and not from any other).
Ed Harris,an authority in my book has suggested that IMR 4064 can also be slightly reduced a bit from max but not as much as the 60%factor.
I've used IMR 4064 at aprox 70% from max in 30-30 with Magnum primer with good accuracy with cast bullets.
If you decide to go that way,you are experimenting...you are on your own!

I've never met Ed Harris, but followed his writing endeavors from the time when he was part of the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN technical staff (when they had a technical staff and when AMERICAN RIFLEMAN was a good magazine). He no longer writes professionally, but remains a true expert on cast bullets and many others handloading-related topics. Mr. Harris could easily be ranked among today's top three or four gunwriters.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Mr. Harris could easily be ranked among today's top three or four gunwriters.[/QUOTE]

I'll second that!

 

[MichiganScott]

I would strongly suggest a call to Speer at your estimated muzzle velocity & ask if the 235g will expand on something as 'soft' as a deer[barring bone impact].
My guess is that these were intended for some of the smaller African game
with tougher hides than a deer. The larger antelope varieties I would imagine. Just my $0.02!

A .375 hole through both side of a deer won't do it any good.