Info about a .38 S&W K Frame

[M10OTW]

I've got an old .38 S&W chambered K frame that I was hoping to get more info about. According to the catalog it should have been made in the 1940s but I would think it would have a V stamp or British marks? It has what I think are Jay Scott Stag grips.

It's in .38 S&W and has a lanyard so I'd assume it's a lend lease but it's in pretty nice shape and I don't see any markings. Did they sell any over runs to the public after the war?

Serial is 823XXX with a P on the other side of the lanyard, The numbers on the butt, barrel, cylinder, ejector star are all the same. the crane arm and cylinder window have a different but matching number 623XX.

 

[Art Doc]

I'm not sure how the VEs (Victory Experts) would categorize it, but I think it's very late 1930s very early 1940s gun sent to Great Britain. Lend Lease? Pre-Victory? You choose. When they got to 999,999 in 1942 they added the V prefix.

Looks original (thank God) save the plastic stocks. The 38 S&W ammo is available but hard to find and pricey. If you load your own no sweat as cases are out there. If you must buy ammo...a gun in 38 Special makes more sense for shooting.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! SP has the ID correct. Depending on their production date they came in polished (commercial) blue, matte blue (yours, I think) and dull grey similar to Parkerized.

If you go to the top of the Forum home page, click on Search then type British pre-Victory into the Search Site/Google function, you will have 483 threads to peruse on your revolver. Enjoy!

 

[DWalt]

That SN would date it at about October 1941, and it would be called a pre-Victory by collectors. Specifically it's a .38/200 British service revolver. They were sold very cheaply by the boatload in the US by many importers in the 1950s and 1960s, often in badly butchered form - refinished, plated, chopped barrels, and chambers reamed to accept .38 Special ammunition. I don't know if yours fits that description. Check the chambers. It is likely Lend-Lease - is there a "United States Property" topstrap stamping? There may or may not be, but I'd think there should the stamping by 10/41.

 

[M10OTW]

Thanks for the reply, my dad has a few other Victories in 38S&W but that are much rougher and have v stamps or british proofs.

I'll probably try to roll my own ammo, does anyone have experience cutting down 38 super cases or should I just buy new starline 38 s&w?

I'm a bit attached to the grips as tacky as they are because I remember my dad exposing me to gunhandling/safety as a little kid with this gun and saying when I was old enough I could have it. I'm sure he has something more original floating around somewhere but it'd only matter If I wanted to sell the gun, which won't happen anyways.

 

[M10OTW]

Specifically it's a .38/200 British service revolver. They were sold very cheaply by the boatload in the US by many importers in the 1950s and 1960s, often in badly butchered form - refinished, plated, chopped barrels, and chambers reamed to accept .38 Special ammunition. I don't know if yours fits that description. Check the chambers.

It appears to be all original, I tried chambering a 38 spl and it has not been reamed. The stamps are all very crisp so I'm assuming it's the original finish. I'll try to get a picture in the daylight so the bluing is more distinct.

 

[DWalt]

The original finish at that time would have been blued. Aside from grips, it's likely all original. The correct grips for that time period are a little tough to come by, unlike the later smooth wood grips which are very common.

 

[M10OTW]

Here are some better pics. There is no US property markings and what I would consider minimal wear compared to the other lend lease guns my dad has which made me question if it was sold commercially.

 

[DWalt]

You CAN trim .38 Special cases to .38 S&W, but it's a PITA. I've done it. Better to buy .38 S&W brass. I use .38 Super reloading dies.

 

[Skeetr57]

I believe that the earliest guns that went to the British from S&W were paid for by the Brits and were not Lend Lease, but were the guns that S&W provided in repayment of the million dollars that Great Britain had advanced to S&W for the failed Light Rifle contract. Those guns would have had no US Property markings. My own BSR is SN 610738 and has no US or British markings.

 

[DWalt]

I believe that the earliest guns that went to the British from S&W were paid for by the Brits and were not Lend Lease, but were the guns that S&W provided in repayment of the million dollars that Great Britain had advanced to S&W for the failed Light Rifle contract. Those guns would have had no US Property markings. My own BSR is SN 610738 and has no US or British markings.

The L-L Act of 1941 implementation was well underway by late 1941, and it's possible property stamping had not caught up. At this period, lack of a topstrap stamping is not necessarily indicative if it's a L-L weapon or not. Prior to the L-L act, the British had to pay for weapons from the USA to avoid being in violation of the Neutrality Act.

"My own BSR is SN 610738 and has no US or British markings"

Skeetr57, That would be a very early SN to have been a BSR. Not impossible, but it would date from 1933, long before the first Commonwealth revolver contracts in early 1940. Please elaborate on exactly what you have. Is it a .38 S&W, and marked as such? Is there perhaps a V prefix to the SN? There are many reasons a Victory or pre-Victory would have no property markings.

 

[zonker5]

....The 38 S&W ammo is available but hard to find and pricey.

I have found 38 S&W at Bass Pro Shops recently, expensive (38.95 for a 50 round box) but at least they have it.

 

[Art Doc]

Buy the correct brass. The problem with 38 Special brass is that it's too small in diameter and bulges in the chamber.

PS: I think I have a set of Lee dies in 38 S&W hanging around that I am not using. If you're interested I'll make you a great deal on them.

 

[Modified]

Keep in mind that you also need bullets that are not the same as .357. They are very much a different diameter and if you shoot .357 bullets you will end up with, at best, less then stellar accuracy, at worst things can get weird.

A good friend of mine went through a lot of work to figure that out. It was amusing to watch, because it wasn't me. Later, that's hateful webley would punish me for that amusement.

Don't stand next to war finish Webleys, they may just embed bits of lead in your face.

 

[Skeetr57]

DWalt: You are correct about the serial number I gave as being too early for a BSR. I was typing too late and didn't proof read. The correct serial is 810738, which I think is in the correct range.

 

[H Richard]

I have a very close issue to yours, with s/n 83335X, which dates to Oct. 1941. It is a "Pre-Victory", and was sent to Australia for service.
The finish on this one is the "refinish" that the Australian armory put on it when it went through a complete refurbish before being re-imported back into the U S.

 

[DWalt]

But at least it still retains the correct grips.

 

[captainjohnsofd]

Try Sarco in Easton, Pa for period correct grips- they run a huge add in Shotgun News

 

[M10OTW]

Try Sarco in Easton, Pa for period correct grips- they run a huge add in Shotgun News

Good tip they have a listing here but no pictures, some of the victory grips that are pictured are magnas so who knows. http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/og-sandwvictorygripsqbuttdexciamonds.aspx
I also found these https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/966350.htm

I'll probably leave the grips as is but keep on the lookout for some original ones to keep with the gun. My dad is a bit of a packrat and has boxes and boxes of gun show dregs the he realized were milsurp and picked up for cheap, it's quite possible he's got something already. To be explicitly clear he bought the gun used with these grips in the 70's, I didn't throw the originals away or anything like that.

I'll look into getting the correct mold as I have a webly and a few other victories in 38S&W so I may as well dump a few extra dollars into equipment and be able to shoot them all.

 

[DWalt]

Sarco does have some smooth wood Victory grips, but they are often out of stock. eBay is probably the best place to look for them. The photo in Posting 16 above shows the type grips yours was probably shipped with. A good pair will not be cheap. The later smooth grips are much less expensive.