Inherited a S&W Model 1 Second issue 22 Short

sfseay

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sfseaypmp


I have some photos (below) , but not much information about this gun. The badge came along with it, but it appears to be from a later era (late 1800s). Any idea what these would be worth?

Photos here

I'm not a collector, but I'm intrigued by history. I'm willing to part with both or each for the right offer.
 
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Hi yes here in Canada there about $200-$250.There cool guns they use black powder .22 cal short bullets they don't recommend you shooting the modern .22 shorts in it.The one that you have is made in 1866 therebouts.Thanks for sharing pictures and welcome to the forum..
 
The estimated value above is about right for US dollars, also, considering the condition shows the age & wear, if the assembly marks on the barrel, cylinder & frame are matching. They would be small stampings of a letter & number, or two letter, or two numbers, found on the back of the barrel, on the face of the cylinder and on the grip frame under the grips. The number on the butt is the serial number and except for appearing on the back of the right grip panel, that's the only place on th gun that the serial number appears. -- The badge is a replica badge, worth maybe $5 -$10. Actually, it's not really a replice but a curosity, as there were no genuine El Paso Police badges of that configuration. Ed.
 
You may want to do your research before commenting on the badge. There is a photo of this exact style badge on the El Paso Police Department's website (see history section). And no, it is not a replica.

You really should check your facts before posting.
 
sfseay, There's also an exact picture in two of the replica badge company catalogs that sell these replicas. I wished I had a nickel for every replica badge I've seen in Police Dept, or law enforcement museums around the country, the were labled as original! Go look at the back of the badge you say is in El Paso and post a picture on this site, and we will see how "original" it may be. Not to say it couldn't be, of course, but the backs & attachment mechanisms are the usual giveaway as to the originality of these badges.
 
I will post a picture of the back, however since you know all about these please tell me what type of attachment mechanism these have before I post a picture. I'm curious if you know what you are talking about or just somebody that thread craps.

Thanks,

Stephen Seay
 
Stephen, As you say, your not a collector,and I agree. If you study hard and look at enough material, you can learn how. Except for the hand made or jeweler made badges, most originals will have the maker's mark, or stamp, on the back and attaching devices are usually, but not always, the pin type. I've never seen a replica that could copy the original maker's stamp exactly. I have seen fakes that tried, but comparing them to known originals, it's easy to tell the fake. Like I said, the El Paso PD museum example may be correct, I haven't seen it. The picture posted looks exactly like the copies. Maybe you should have posted pictures of the back as well, and it would be clear to all what it is. I have apparently rained on your parade. So sorry aboui that!
 
Model2


Thanks for the quick response. You are right, I'm not a collector, however I know from being on other types of forums, there is always somebody that claims to have expertise. I take everything I read on the internet with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I hope you realize that as far as I know you have no idea what you are talking about. I stated up front what I believe based upon what my father told me, but even he could have been duped. He was an attorney and we all know they have questionable character
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If you have catalog photos that look "exactly" like this I would like to see them.

Thanks, and in case the embedded link to the photo of the back doesn't work here it is:

http://picasaweb.google.com/projectman/Model2#5305031361668646850

If a better photo is needed I will try to do that. I don't know what the stamp on the back says, but could probably read it with a magnifying glass.
 
Steve, Your photo of the back is very good. Granted, you can't quite read the imprint, but it's very similar to the imprint used by the Rubber Stamp Co. Los Angeles, Cal., circa 1900. They were a large badge co. who sold their badges to many police and law personnel and enforcement agencies for many years around the turn of the century. They had standard star patterns, 6 point, 5 point, shield patterns, etc. I sold off my copy of their catalog,and most of my badge collection some time ago, but if you can find a copy, I'll bet it has a sample picture of the same 6 point star style as yours. Do you know the provnance of you father's badge? If it was a dept. issue by El Paso, then they should have a record of their purchases and which officer was No. 14. Perhaps the payroll records would identify if there was a No. 14. My identification of the item as a replica, based on the front picture, implied it was a modern replica and may be incorrect, as the back side tells me it's an old badge, whether official El Paso issue, I don't know. Being old doesn't mean its not a copy or a salesman's sample badge, made to see if an order could be obtained. Badge collectors have many examples of those sample badges and if proof of an order cannot be found, then they are just considered samples only. Many police and law agencies of that period required the officer to furnish his own badge, gun ,horse, whatever, so he ordered what he could afford from a catalog such as the Rubber Stamp Co. in Los Angeles. A clue that it might be an issued badge is that it is numbered. Which also means there should be a roster somewhere in the El Paso PD archives that would help solve the mystery. I worked in law enforcement in El Paso in 1951-52 era but wasn't looking into their history at that time, but it was a very interesting period in my life experiences.
 
Sfseay you can take what Ed (opoef) says about antique Smiths to the bank. He is an expert. I suspect that he is the longest standing member of the Smith & Wesson Collector Association who contributes to this forum. He knows Smith & Wessons. I have always found his comments to be right on so if he says he knows about badges also, I would trust him. It certainly looks old to me.
Mark
 
Thank you all. I contacted the El Paso Historical society in January in regards to the badge. I sent them photos, and received a reply they would do some research.

Like I said earlier, I'm not a collector, but in these hard economic times if I can make a few dollars off these items that would be great.

Also, I think I mentioned earlier the El Paso Police Department's website has a nice historical section and they do show a picture of this style badge. Their guess is late 1800s - early 1900s, but they weren't sure.

Thanks again to everyone. I will let you know I hear.

Stephen Seay
 
sfeasy,
Hello and welcome to the forum. The pin on the rear of your badge has been replaced in the past. If you could send a close up photo of the hallmark, I can offer some help on that too, as I have collected police badges for 25 years and have books on the subject. As for the revolver, I agree with cflier's opinion about opoefc's qualifications, so enjoy his wisdom on that. Enjoy the forum and make some friends! Waistgunner
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opoefc is one of the most highly esteemed members on this forum, helpful to all,patient,knowledgeable-no evidence of being less than a gentleman.Newbies should be here a while before they jump,accuse him of being a trasher or less than a great asset to the forum.
 
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