Inside sludge.

[donaldw870]

If only the original owners of the old guns I bought wouldn't have dropped so much oil in them! I spent an hour with degreaser on my new-to-me 1953 K22, and I'm only half done. Good news is this old girl has no rust inside, due to the constant oil bath.

 

[SAFireman]

Every one I that bring home has to have the side plate removed and a bath before I can feel good about it....I have been using non-chlorinated brake cleaner on the stainless ones, but have not been quite that brave with the blue ones...makes a big difference in the way the action feels.

 

[donaldw870]

Me too. I always take them apart.

I'm using Remington brand action cleaner on this blued gun. Is that okay, or the same as brake cleaner?

 

[scooter123]

I would avoid the use of brake cleaner on a handgun, in the presence of heat any trace can generate Phosgene gas, a very lethal gas.

Saw a posting on a motorcycle forum a few years back by a welder who used brake cleaner to prep some parts for welding. He thought he had everything dried but apparently there was some residue collected in a crevice. As a result he's on permanent disability with lung damage and darned near died.

 

[srgvaz]

Me too. I always take them apart.

I'm using Remington brand action cleaner on this blued gun. Is that okay, or the same as brake cleaner?

The REM stuff is good, and stay away from the brake & carb cleaners.

 

[Malysh]

This thread prompts me to ask a question or two I've thought about for a long time.

Although I have the correct Brownells Magna-tip screwdrivers for both S&W and Colts, I have never had the guts to remove the sideplates and completely clean the insides of my old revolvers.

Is is possible to unscrew sideplate screws without damaging them?
I know the most important aspect is to have the correct size screwdrivers, but it always seemed to me that by just turning the screws one would deform the slots.
How tight should one turn the screws when putting the sideplate back on?
Do you gents use threadlocker on the screws rather than trying to tighten them down as hard as you can?

I always seem to slip the screwdriver blade out of the slot even when loosening or retightening a grip screw, even trying to be focused and very careful.
I can't imagine being able to do this with tiny sideplate screws on revolvers. I probably just don't have a good touch for this kind of work......

 

[diamonback68]

Is is possible to unscrew sideplate screws without damaging them?

Yes, if done properly.

Do you gents use threadlocker on the screws rather than trying to tighten them down as hard as you can?

No.

I always seem to slip the screwdriver blade out of the slot even when loosening or retightening a grip screw, even trying to be focused and very careful.

The secret is to use a slight downward pressure on the screwdriver into the slot at the same time.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[tbury]

I use "gun" type hollow ground screwdriver tips. Set the gun on a non slip surface, put the driver into the slot, put downward pressure with your palm on the butt of the driver handle. When the gun is stable gradually apply rotational pressure on the handle with the other hand until the screw breaks loose. If the tip of the driver fits the slot correctly and you maintain down pressure the driver should not jump out of the slot which is the main cause of damage. If you cannot break a screw loose, put kroil or other penetrating oil on the screw and let sit for about 20 min and try again.

 

[Malysh]

Thanks to Diamonback68 & tbury.
I think I am just a bit clumsy.
I was aware you need to apply some straight downward pressure and then turn the screw. I just don't trust myself to do it.

Especially, tbury's explanation will help me keep in mind the correct technique. But I appreciate both of your answers.
I have the correct type of screwdrivers. They are of paramount importance, even in screwing and unscrewing something as mundane as AK buttstock screws unless you don't care if they get mashed.

I guess I will just have to "screw up" my courage and give it a try.
At least I should be able to get factory replacement screws if I "screw it up"

Thanks again, gents.

 

[rburg]

Gum and crud inside the action is pretty common. Even brand spankin' new guns sometimes have all kinds of evil debris inside. When I bought my then brand new 337, it had a strange habit. Every time I dry fired it, I would get green oil out the hammer and trigger openings. The first time I just wiped it off. But then I noticed it had a gritty feeling. So I took it down and found machining debris inside. Metal cuttings and grit. Because its got a painted finish, I was leery of using solvents so I did the unthinkable. I washed it. Yep, hot, soapy water on the gun, innards and all. Then even hotter water to rinse. I just put it on the counter beside the sink to dry. Just a droplet of oil on the pins and it became a much smoother gun.

Old guns were often lubricated by those without the experience or knowledge of how to work on them. If there's an opening, they pour some oil inside. If some oil is good, more is better, with too much being just right. One such incident isn't so bad. Usually the oil doesn't puddle, it runs down into the grip frame where it protects the wood from rusting. Its why you never see rust on wood..I think.

But where the problem occurs is when they do it repeatedly, over a long period. They use the lube they have at the time. Some seems incompatible with the others, and it forms gum or hairballs. Its what we attack when we take the side plate and cylinder off the gun. Often just solvents aren't good enough, you need mechanical help. I prefer a toothpick to urge it along and out. Qtips also can help.

With blue or nickel guns, I don't agree with an earlier posters idea of not using them. They're cheap, available, sometimes in quantity. I have no idea if he's right or wrong about his phosgene gas theory. I don't heat my guns to the point where it might be a problem. I seriously doubt the heat from a water faucet would produce any kind of reaction. The real problem on newer guns is the finish. Paint sometimes dissolves under attack from strong solvents. I've never had a problem with blue or nickel finishes. They seem very durable.

 

[diamonback68]

Usually the oil doesn't puddle, it runs down into the grip frame where it protects the wood from rusting. Its why you never see rust on wood..I think.

Now that's funny.
Same guy probably puts a couple extra quarts of oil in his car to make sure it has enough.

 

[Muley Gil]

When the L frame revolvers came out, I did action jobs on a bunch of 'em. It seemed like the last thing the assemblers at S&W did, before screwing down the sideplate, was to add a spoonfull of metal shavings, at least to the stainless guns.

As a young deputy sheriff, I worked with another young deputy who knew next to nothing about firearm maintenance. One day I watched him clean his M19. His final act was to turn it upside down and squirt 3 in 1 oil around the trigger. It was dripping oil when he got done.

 

[donaldw870]

Thanks, guys, for the input on my question. I do sometime use mechanical help, too, in the form of a toothbrush or brass brush. The rebound slide on this one in particular needed some help. I assume that the brass is much softer than what I'm cleaning, and I haven't observed anything to indicate otherwise.

As for Malysh's question on removing the sideplate, I'd strongly recommend the video by Jerry Miculek, "Complete Revolver Disassembly/Reassembly". It's available at GunVideo.com-World class firearm instructional DVD Videos. Handgun,rifle,shotgun,pistol, revolver,disassembly and reassembly,military,law enforcement training,self-defense,concealed carry,night shooting,tactical long range shooting,sniper,competition. I hadn't taken one apart in a couple of years, so I reviewed it yesterday prior to disassembly of mine. What was once intimidating is now fairly straightforward. Keep your screws and other smaller parts in a dish, and larger parts in a cigar box during the operation.

 

[Malysh]

Thanks, guys, for the input on my question. I do sometime use mechanical help, too, in the form of a toothbrush or brass brush. The rebound slide on this one in particular needed some help. I assume that the brass is much softer than what I'm cleaning, and I haven't observed anything to indicate otherwise.

As for Malysh's question on removing the sideplate, I'd strongly recommend the video by Jerry Miculek, "Complete Revolver Disassembly/Reassembly". It's available at GunVideo.com-World class firearm instructional DVD Videos. Handgun,rifle,shotgun,pistol, revolver,disassembly and reassembly,military,law enforcement training,self-defense,concealed carry,night shooting,tactical long range shooting,sniper,competition. I hadn't taken one apart in a couple of years, so I reviewed it yesterday prior to disassembly of mine. What was once intimidating is now fairly straightforward. Keep your screws and other smaller parts in a dish, and larger parts in a cigar box during the operation.

That's good advice.
I've been procrastinating for years about getting a copy of Kuhnhausen's books on S&W and Colt revolvers.
Are Mikulec's DVDs any better than the Kuhnhausen books?

One thing is for sure. Before I turn a sideplate screw I will be getting one of these referrence works so I don't make a mistake once I start cleaning parts or lubing them.

 

[nicky4968]

I am as guilty as anyone of over-oiling firearms. This has come about from seeing too many firearms that were laid flat on a high shelf and left for about 20 years. One side beautiful, one side awful.
As far as taking them apart, well, with the way my hands shake it is best that I give my firearms to a professional for detail strip and the like.
(BTW: Keystone #1, #2, and Kroil rule).

 

[donaldw870]

That's good advice.
I've been procrastinating for years about getting a copy of Kuhnhausen's books on S&W and Colt revolvers.
Are Mikulec's DVDs any better than the Kuhnhausen books?

I have both. I found the DVD much more educational in that it covered the basics and not much more, unlike the nitty gritty detail gunsmithing details covered in the Kuhnhausen book.

 

[kimber 22]

Is is possible to unscrew sideplate screws without damaging them?

Yes. There's a trick once you get the screws off.

Use Kroil like tbury said to help break parts loose before you even try to loosen the screws. With the revolver laying flat, right side facing up, put a drop on each screw and walk away for a while. If the revolver is used, it likely has some sludge built up inside. As somebody else said above, even new ones can need some internal cleaning. After soaking, the techniques people described above should be fine. Keep the driver straight so it won't slip and scratch the sideplate. One of the screws is usually hidden by the grips, so try that one first. Keep the screws in a small tray or old CCI MiniMag box, and keep track of which screw goes where.

To get the sideplate off (once the screws are out), tap the grip frame with the handle of your screwdriver or hammer. The vibrations will cause the sideplate to slide out - be ready for it to fall off into your hand. This will prevent amateurish looking pry marks...

Although I have the correct Brownells Magna-tip screwdrivers for both S&W and Colts,

Magna-tips are perfect; though do not be surprised if the three screws are not all the same size.

How tight should one turn the screws when putting the sideplate back on?
Do you gents use threadlocker on the screws rather than trying to tighten them down as hard as you can?

I tighten them 'til they stop without damage to the head. I do not use threadlocker. I check for tightness when cleaning.

I always seem to slip the screwdriver blade out of the slot even when loosening or retightening a grip screw, even trying to be focused and very careful. I can't imagine being able to do this with tiny sideplate screws on revolvers. I probably just don't have a good touch for this kind of work......

You could be over-tightening. If you strip the head, you can buy new screws from Brownell's. Just don't scratch the sideplate.... On the other hand, knowing your limitations is important, and you could always find a competent gunsmith or shooting friend to help out.

In addition to Kunhausen, I recommend Patrick Sweeney's book Gunsmithing: Pistols and Revolvers.

 

[Malysh]

And a big thanks to Kimber 22, also!

Semper Fi

 

[310nightguard]

I have bought a couple of guns recently that were very dirty...

A Smith 629 and Ruger Blackhawk... spent about an hour with each one and they look like totally different guns. Gunk and grit all over and dirty bores also.

When I put a gun away, it is spotless.

 

[beemerphile]

the grunge solution...

1) Complete disassembly
2) Ultrasonic bath with fresh water and cleaning concentrate
3) Dry, dry, dry until dry.
4) Militec sparingly where lube is needed.
5) Renaissance wax the externals
6) Reassemble and test.