I have a 610-1 6.5" that exhibited a strange case separation issue. New starline brass. 12grs of AA#7 behind a Hornaday Action Pistol 180. Admittedly a warm load but shot just fine in 1006, Delta Elite & Colt Double Eagle 10mm. Using the TK moon clips I had several cases separate in the chamber, I'm assuming the TK moon clips are causing excessive headspace with the starline brass. It only occurred 6-7 times in 100 rds fired. The TK's are the .035 thickness and I'm hoping to get some Ranch Products .027's to compare. Never had ant issues like this with the 625. Opinions/experiences?
Interesting 610-1 dilemma
- Thread starter SSBiggun
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
Protocall_Design
Member
You say new brass. Have you fired the new brass in the other guns? Maybe a bad lot of brass?
44wheelman
Member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 1,698
- Reaction score
- 984
Don't think it's clip related. My suggestion is to clean & polish chambers.
Case length under max? Are you using a roll crimp?
I would throw suspicion on brass as well, I had new 32h&r starline that would occasionally rupture under a warm load, Federal brass did not.
Case length under max? Are you using a roll crimp?
I would throw suspicion on brass as well, I had new 32h&r starline that would occasionally rupture under a warm load, Federal brass did not.
Last edited:
Dillon Taper crimp. I have fired other brands of brass without issue but not many. I only have about 200 rounds through this 610 since i got it used. No issues with this load in any of my autoloaders . I did consider the brass being culprit, which is why I posted up hoping others experience could confirm possibilities.
Perhaps a call to Starline. I would think they would have some expertise on separations, and would like to check their brass, as well.
Neither the gun or the clip caused that separation. That is a brass failure.
Never had this happen with a straight wall case. I did used to have this problem with 7x30 Waters in a Contender. I never found the real answer, but think it was case stretch related. It was a pretty high pressure round.
I've had the same issue with my 4" 610-3 after I converted it to 10MAG. Never had any issue with it as a 10AUTO & over 1000 rounds using S-L brass thru it before.
The thinner moonclips will give you more headspace. Neither one should be a problem because you can (I do mainly) shoot without moonclips if the brass is trimmed to the correct length & you taper crimp the brass so it can headspace on the chamber shoulder properly.
I spoke with Starline/Hunter Pilant extensively about this several times. He thought is was a problem with the reamed 10MAG chambers but sent me a bag on brass to try, which was moderately better but it still occured.
Mine appear to separate the same place as yours, right where the brass (inside) starts to transition from straight to angle toward the base, as it gets thicker.
I had a (1000) 10MAG cases originally & have gone thru all of them. Since then I've gotten a (1000) more new ones, hopefully of a different batch, but I haven't gotten back to the playing with the 10MAG yet.
Before I do though I'm going to make one more attempt at polishing the 10MAG chambers, just in case, but seeing you're having the same issue, with un-reamed chambers, I'm still leaning towards a bad run of brass.
Again though, I've shot 1000's of Starline 10AUTO brass in several different firearms, loaded HOT, & never had them separate, so...??
.
.
.
.
.
.
Last edited:
I'm trying to wrap my head around this statement. Wouldn't thicker clips result in more head space, as they would have the effect of pulling the case mouth further back in the chamber?
The only headspace problem I ever encountered was with a .221 Fireball, but the case separations were identical and were a result of the resizing die pushing the shoulder back too far. Adjusting the die so it only neck sized the cartridge eliminated the problem.
***Biggun, what was the length of the Starline brass as it came from the factory vs after processing and vs after firing?
Yorkie Man
Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2008
- Messages
- 573
- Reaction score
- 264
I had the same problem with new Starline 30-30 brass. I contacted them and was told it was an anomaly with the brass. They replaced the brass and I haven't had any problems since.
Case Separation
Is that a line(groove) around the non separated brass? In the picture it appears to be point of the separation. You also have a flattened primer in your last picture, which indicates a high-pressure round. I have never used any AA#7 so I have no experience with that powder. I do shoot the 610 with hot loads and have never had a case separate. Look at your book and see what the pressure of your load is. Try a different powder or reduce your load a little!
jcelect
Is that a line(groove) around the non separated brass? In the picture it appears to be point of the separation. You also have a flattened primer in your last picture, which indicates a high-pressure round. I have never used any AA#7 so I have no experience with that powder. I do shoot the 610 with hot loads and have never had a case separate. Look at your book and see what the pressure of your load is. Try a different powder or reduce your load a little!
jcelect
This is revolver headspace not bootleneck rifle headspace
Seeing this is an semi-auto rimless cartridge being used in a revolver the term may be dubious but being a straight walled case it does not have to headspace in the case mouth, in fact when used with moonclips, as the factory advises, & with brass within SAAMI OAL" specs, the cartridge would not be headspacing on the case mouth.
This is the same situation as is in revolver using a rimmed cartridge where the case headspaces on the rim verses the moonclip. Both being different from a rimless bottleneck cartridge headspacing on its shoulder in a rifle.
The moonclip sets the headspace clearance, which is in this case, the distant from the face of the case head to the revolver frame's breech face. (In a revolver other factors account for the total gross headspace.)
Thus changing from a thicker moonclip to a thinner moonclip increases the distance between the face of the case & the frame's breechface resulting in more headspace.
And we know the 40S&W cartridge can be shot in the 610, with moonclips, as the shorter case length has nothing to do with its headspacing.
Again, you can shoot the 10AUTO without moonclips in the 610, as I outlined previously, with no trouble. This setup typically results in even higher headspace clearances & is totally dependent on the proper case length to avoid issues.
.
Seeing this is an semi-auto rimless cartridge being used in a revolver the term may be dubious but being a straight walled case it does not have to headspace in the case mouth, in fact when used with moonclips, as the factory advises, & with brass within SAAMI OAL" specs, the cartridge would not be headspacing on the case mouth.
This is the same situation as is in revolver using a rimmed cartridge where the case headspaces on the rim verses the moonclip. Both being different from a rimless bottleneck cartridge headspacing on its shoulder in a rifle.
The moonclip sets the headspace clearance, which is in this case, the distant from the face of the case head to the revolver frame's breech face. (In a revolver other factors account for the total gross headspace.)
Thus changing from a thicker moonclip to a thinner moonclip increases the distance between the face of the case & the frame's breechface resulting in more headspace.
And we know the 40S&W cartridge can be shot in the 610, with moonclips, as the shorter case length has nothing to do with its headspacing.
Again, you can shoot the 10AUTO without moonclips in the 610, as I outlined previously, with no trouble. This setup typically results in even higher headspace clearances & is totally dependent on the proper case length to avoid issues.
.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
