Interesting old article from 1969 referencing .38 S&W loads

[9245]

I stumbled on an old archived edition of Guns Magazine from March of 1969, it is about the .38 Safety Hammerless, and it mentions a load, the author claimed to get 863 fps with a 125 grain"Nuro-Shock" loaded with 4 grains of unique but cautioned only to use it in serial numbers above 117000. He acknowledges that loading tables generally concentrated on solid frames.

Would a load that actually be safe though? That seems a bit hot for a top break. Would this actually work safely in a safety hammerless? That seems like a stretch.

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/G0369.pdf

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

"... a 125 grain"Nuro-Shock" loaded with 4 grains of unique but cautioned only to use it in serial numbers above 117000. He acknowledges that loading tables generally concentrated on solid frames."

Speer #12 for .38 S&W quotes a 125 grain JHP with a Max Load of 4.8 grains of Unique Powder and notes only in Modern, Solid-Frame revolvers or Enfields and Webleys.

 

[Model19man]

I use 4.0 grains of Unique for the Enfield. I use Matt's bullets, which are hard alloyed lead. I get severe leading if I go over 4 grains. For sure I would not want to shoot the same in a S&W top break revolver. They are not built for that, I don't care what serial number.

 

[Alk8944]

I do not recall ever seeing anything about a "Nuro-Shock" bullet. I have shot my .38 Safety extensively using data from the 1973 Lyman "Cast Bullet Handbook". It shows Unique at a maximum of 4.0 gr. with a 150 gr. bullet, the 358430. (This bullet mold was available in both 150 and 195 gr. weights.) There should be no issue with a 125 gr. bullet at that load, but be aware that the weak point of the top-breaks is the barrel latch. It may not totally fail, but can stretch so the barrel does not lock firmly.

With any top-break revolver the secret is don't shoot anything you are not sure of in these guns!

The article OP linked to states that the 4th & 5th change guns, over 117,000, are good to reload for as long as you do not exceed the minimum loads in the Lyman manual. This is excellent advice! The closest load in the cited Lyman handbook is a 133 gr. bullet with a minimum load of 3.5/ Unique. He did not say the load you cited specifically. The reason he says the 4th & 5th change guns are OK is because they have stronger barrel latches than the earlier "T"- shaped ones.

 

[DWalt]

Not at all difficult to load the .38 S&W to any factory .38 Special performance level if you are so inclined. But only with lead bullets, and use them only in solid frame revolvers.

 

[tom2]

I think I have seen some loads using .38 special bullets, which are under size and might result in reduced pressure. Maybe a HBWC would work in the larger bore of the .38 to expand to fit but I have only used lead bullets sized for the bore in solid frame guns.

 

[DWalt]

.38 Special bullets will work just fine in .38 S&W revolvers. A 0.003" diameter difference means nothing. I have never reloaded .38 S&W with anything other than lead bullets. SAAMI specs allow for bullets as small as 0.355". I have measured factory lead bullets at 0.357". 0.361" bullets are recommended but by no means essential.

 

[Green Frog]

OK,I'm still trying to see where I fit into the scheme of things here. I have a pre War S&W Terrier and figure it will be safe for any major factory (not boutique) loads. I'd like to get as close to the 38-200 British standard military loads as safely possible, but I'll have to cast up a special batch of 200 gr lead alloy bullets from the big RN mould I already have, and figure out how to power them safely. I'm thinking I could use a fairly mild load of Unique or perhaps Bullseye to accomplish this.

Taking into consideration these are intended for use in my pre War I frame snub, can somebody suggest a safe starting load with Bullseye or Unique?

TIA~Froggie

 

[9245]

The gun may survive a while but please let me share a story.

My grandfather was a cop after world war 2. War ended, left the navy, became a cop. The first weapon he was issued was a top break revolver by smith and wesson. Not sure what model, but others in the department had them for plain clothes work.

He had an incident with a dog and started loading it with surplus british 38-200 ammunition. Either 200 grain lead bullets or the replacement 170 grain fmj. Some of the others did the same. Short story version, after a while they discovered that their guns went out of mechanical reliability.

For the cost of the gun, you can either sell it and get something "better" or just purchase/load standard pressure ammunition. I have a fondness for top breaks, mainly because the ones I can find in good condition are the ones for sale at midway usa

Midway USA? Do you have a link to those?

 

[Green Frog]

Thom 44, keep in mind first that I'm talking about an I (solid) frame gun made just prior to WW II. Second, I clearly stated that I wanted mild starting loads, implying relatively low pressures. I really like that little Terrier, the smallest 38 S&W ever made and wouldn't intentionally do anything to damage it.

I'm thinking in terms of the big, slow moving projectile theory… a 200 gr bullet chugging along @ 650-750 fps should have the desired effect. So once again, I'm open to anybody's tried and true loads for 38 S&W using a195-200 gr bullet and, if practical, either Unique or Bullseye. Does anybody have any pet loads in this category? As always, TIA!

Froggie

PS. What bullet diameter(s) have worked well for you guys in pre War 38 S&Ws?