Internet Cop Bashing

Towns and cities shouldn't be doing business. They should be meeting the needs of the residents.



I got a good laugh out of that one. Who runs the disciplinary/investigation process in many places? Why the city/town council, of course! No conflict of interest there, I'm sure.:rolleyes:

Cities and towns are absolutely a business, probably more so than a lot of the private sector. Qualified immunity has nothing to do with municipal disciplinary actions towards their employees. Qualified immunity is a legal principal that comes into play when a public servant, any public servant, not just cops, are sued in a civil court. It does not excuse negligence or criminal actions. You really should do a little research on what it is and how it works because your comments are way off. You also might want to look into where the internal discipline comes from. I don't know how it is in Sin City but where I am, police discipline cases go in front of a board made up of local citizens that come from various segments of the community.
 
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There are bad priests, firefighters, congress members, postal workers, etc. How long does it stay on the nightly news when one of them does something bad. But a cop does something bad and it burns for weeks on every news media outlet.
.

Police are in a special category of profession
because they have the power of arrest and the
ability to take people's freedoms away. And
when they abuse that power, they deserve to
be singled out more than others.
 
More people have contact with the police than any other government office agency except the post office. And of course whenever there's some sort of calamity all "non-essential" government employees are asked to stay home.
I like the scene in "The Sopranos" where Janice Soprano kills her boyfriend Richie Aprile. She doesn't call the police, she calls her brother.
We do have higher expectations for some people, especially those on the public payroll.
 
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I had one jerk in my academy class… thought he was big/tough. Ex-football player. Recycled from a prior class due to not passing tests. Defensive tactics, where people were supposed to go 30%… he would go 90%, to include against females. We all hated him, but he never did anything that could get him kicked out.

We all graduate (minus one injured), he pulled out of all the group chats we had. Pretty sure he knew we all couldn’t stand him. Think everyone was like, “good riddance!”

Fast forward to mid-2023…

Southern District of California | Customs and Border Protection Officer Indicted for Receiving Bribes, Allowing Drug-laden Vehicles to Enter the U.S. | United States Department of Justice

When we heard about it from classmates down there, I don’t want to say we were shocked… but more that it took so long to happen. There is a lot that isn’t in that press release, but guy is a complete piece of human garbage. There was a news article about the arraignment, where it described him shaking his head in disbelief… literally could imagine it from how he handled himself during the academy.

I’ve done a lot in my career that I am proud of. I’ve been given letters of commendation for some of it. I don’t treat people any different than how I would want to be treated. But end of the day, people don’t look at my job for people like me…but the trash linked above. 40 other guys/girls graduated along side him who didn’t betray the honor/duty we signed up for.
 
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Like it or not Most LEOs are good people. They like everyone else has “ events” or “ circumstances” that change them. The pressure that their job exposes them to is “ something else”, all you have to do is ask one if you know them well enough to talk to. Retired ones on this forum can Certainly explain such. Nuf Sed.
 
I don’t assume that anyone is “scum.” I keep it in the back of my mind that the next person I deal with could draw a gun and shoot me… but that isn’t how I interact with the public. There is a difference with preparing yourself for a bad situation verses treating everyone that they are causing a bad situation.

A lot of the time, I have to make a decision in under a minute or two whether a person is admissible to the US (if not a citizen, NAI or has a green card) and if they are bringing in any contraband. Treating people like “scum” makes that much more difficult to accomplish. I know coworkers that do (who myself and others call out repeatedly), and I know my record is leaps/bounds above their own.

Criminality can actually make people inadmissible to the US, even with what is shown on the news. I refuse foreigners consistently for criminal records… and I always tell them the same thing as I start; we all make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes have consequences. The successful businessman who stole something twice when he was just out of high school is still inadmissible… but shouldn’t change how I think of him. I had a SGT tell me that when I first got into L/E that the homeless guy on the street that you might just roll past could be a Medal of Honor recipient; look at each person with a clear slate.

I’ve caught plenty of people in lies by not treating them as “scum.” Making someone comfortable may have things slip that a traditional “interrogation” would cause them to lock down on. People aren’t “broke” like you see in the movies. Hell, I’ve told a few people that they cannot even attempt to come back to the US for 5 years, and they shook my hand after the paperwork was done.

So… no, 100% of L/E don’t say all of the public is “scum.” If I’m in that group… can’t say it’s 100%, right? Just like I know plenty of people I interact with don’t see L/E as “scum.” If how I handle myself has just one person say we aren’t all bad people, I take pride in that.
 
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Some folks sure are thin skinned. You ought to try being a retired USPS letter carrier.

I’m sure working for the PO is tough but I doubt anyone runs away from you when you try to make an arrest, or shoots at you while delivering the daily mail.
 
I’m sure working for the PO is tough but I doubt anyone runs away from you when you try to make an arrest, or shoots at you while delivering the daily mail.


I never tried to arrest anyone but have assisted by passing on info to officers doing searches that resulted in arrests three times, and twice given info that was sufficient enough to have two people uncuffed and released.

Ten or so years ago a Lawrenceville, GA letter carrier was shot in the stomach by a guy who was sick and in need of much medical care that he could not afford. He shot the mail carrier as it was a felony and he would receive medical treatment in prison.

Pine Lake, GA. police chased an armed robber into the PO and a few folks were wounded in the following shooting.

It is a dangerous world out there.
 
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Back in the early ‘70s I knocked on a door to serve an assault warrant (not domestic violence). The black man who the warrant named was married to a white woman, not a good thing back then. To make things worse I didn’t want to take the man away in cuffs in front of his kids, so I offered him a deal. We walk together the few blocks to the jail, I’d book him in and he’d bond out in less than an hour. I didn’t know what the assault circumstances were and he was back home in an hour.
 
Interesting discussion, from both sides.

As a couple of posters have pointed out, there are a few posting here who clearly have no love for cops, but the forum proscriptions prevent them from being too obvious about it. With a least a couple of them, that opinion has been obvious from past posts, so no surprises there.

What any of us writes tells much about who we are. I plead guilty to that.

I have been around this since my earliest days in LE, and it has never deterred me from sticking with my own principles. It never caused me to question the career I had chosen.

I started going up the promotional ladder early on. I also started teaching early on. In each of those I always had to be a role model.

Over my years of teaching many of my students went into LE and had successful careers, and they have told me that it was my example that caused them to go on to those successful LE careers. We now live about 450 miles from where I worked. Despite that distance, one night we were dining in a restaurant in Redding, CA when an individual came over to our table and introduced himself. He was a recently retired RPD officer, but he knew me. He had taken my AJ courses years (decades) before at the local college where we used to live. He recognized me even after all these years. He came over to thank me for being that role model and inspiring him to become an LEO. After a few years in LE he had lateralled to RPD because of the outdoor activities, finished his successful career, and retired.

Another such instance happened around Christmas 2022. We were down where I used to work staying with family. Some of us had gone out to dinner in an excellent seafood restaurant in a very popular area. As soon as I had finished my meal, I came outside ahead of the others to take some night photographs. As soon as I exited into a very crowded area someone called out my name starting with my title, and rushed over. Turns out he had been one of my AJ students, who had just retired from his career as a USPS Inspector. It was the same thing as above. I had influenced him to pursue a career in LE. He had never forgotten and immediately recognized me. He introduced me to his family, told them this was how it had all started and took a selphie of all of us. He was very pleased, after all these years, to be able to say 'thank you'.

Besides my students (many more examples than the two I cited) I have had countless of my old cops thank me for my leadership and being there for them.

These unanticipated contacts have more meaning to me than any other elements of my career. They make it all worth it.

I relate this because this is what I can look back on.

That more than offsets the bashing, the inability to mention LE in any context without reference to bad cops they have run into or heard of, the damning with faint praise the acknowledgement that there just might be, somewhere out there, a decent LEO.

We know what we did, what we faced, who we are. No one can take that away from us.
 
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I spent 30 years defending deputy sheriffs from 42 USC Section 1983 claims. It was very rare for me to represent an officer that had actually violated someone's civil rights. So, why do these cases get settled rather than tried? If the plaintiff (allegedly aggrieved party) prevails in court, they are entitled to their attorney's fees. The plaintiff may get awarded $500.00 in a case and he/she will most likely be found as the prevailing party. The serious damages are the attorney's fees which may be as a high as $400,000.00 or more. The entity defending the officer would rather settle than risk the attorney's fees. So, when you read or hear that a city or county or other political subdivision has settled a case, don't always jump to the conclusion the officer(s) did something wrong. Most of the time it is just business as usual.
 
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Police are in a special category of profession
because they have the power of arrest and the
ability to take people's freedoms away. And
when they abuse that power, they deserve to
be singled out more than others.


Looks like my last post was deleted which was unfortunate. What I wanted to say was I disagree with this quote in that everyone should be held to a higher standard. What was the last dirty judge that was held to account, can you name him or her. But I bet you can name several cops that were in the national news for this "being held to acccount."

It is sad that people are liking this on a post about cop bashing. No cop ever said they were perfect, we just want the same benefit of the doubt that everyone else gets. I guess we don't even get that here.

Enough of this post, moving on.:rolleyes:
 
What was the last dirty judge that was held to account, can you name him or her.

Check out Operation Greylord for a start.

And going higher up, ever hear of Governors
Blagojevich, Ryan, Walker, Kerner?
 
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I don't mind the bashing. In my experience, the biggest bashers are mostly jealous and in a thousand years wouldn't be able to do the job. What does drive me nuts are the ones who pontificate about things like qualified immunity, civil law and civil rights but have absolutely no clue about what they are talking about. If you're going to virtue signal your disdain for LE, at least take the time to educate yourself a little bit before you go about telling us all about how you think things should be. It might make it a bit easier for people to have some respect for your opinion.
 
More than once I've replied to a bashing post this way: If you are so concerned about the state of law enforcement today, quit your job, go to the police academy and get some training and become a police officer yourself. Be part of the solution and not the problem. BTW, I have no dog in this fight since no family members have ever been in law enforcement to the best of my knowledge.
 
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I spent 36 years working for an agency that had a law enforcement arm. I was myself law enforcement certified for a time. I have seen a significant number of officers that abuse their positions of trust and authority. Other officers turn a blind eye to their actions often. Not always but to much. Some of these rotten apples never get their just desserts. How I have no idea.
IMO qualified immunity has to end so that the rotten apples can be taken to task by those people that are abused without those bad officers being able to hid within the system and allow themselves to be defended by government agencies with unlimited taxpayer and union funds for defense against the average citizen that does not have such deep resources for legal remedy.
The best solution is for those majority of the good officers to themselves winnow out the culls. The good ones know full well who the bad ones are. Good officers have nothing to fear from loss of qualified immunity as well as other government entities protected by this legal get out of jail free card.
My 2 cents worth. So circle the blue wagons
 
I spent 36 years working for an agency that had a law enforcement arm. I was myself law enforcement certified for a time. I have seen a significant number of officers that abuse their positions of trust and authority. Other officers turn a blind eye to their actions often. Not always but to much. Some of these rotten apples never get their just desserts. How I have no idea.
IMO qualified immunity has to end so that the rotten apples can be taken to task by those people that are abused without those bad officers being able to hid within the system and allow themselves to be defended by government agencies with unlimited taxpayer and union funds for defense against the average citizen that does not have such deep resources for legal remedy.
The best solution is for those majority of the good officers to themselves winnow out the culls. The good ones know full well who the bad ones are. Good officers have nothing to fear from loss of qualified immunity as well as other government entities protected by this legal get out of jail free card.
My 2 cents worth. So circle the blue wagons

So please explain to us how qualified immunity is stopping the removal of "rotten apples". In fact, please explain to us what your understanding of the legal principal of qualified immunity is.
 
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