Intl Law/Treaty vs. 2nd Amendment

Ben Cartwright SASS

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I keep hearing that if Obama signs the UN treaty outlawing private ownership of guns, whether by executive order or by just signing it, it would superscede the Constitution since it is International Law.

Can an International Treaty or Law be higher than our Constitution? and if so how?
 
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The President may sign a Treaty but it must also be ratified by 66 senators. Considering the Big O could not get 60 votes for Healthcare, I doubt that he could get 66 votes for this treaty in question.

Also, even if it did get ratified, it would be a clear violation of the 2nd as quantified by Heller. I really think we have nothing to worry about this.

But what if it was ratified and then deemed not a violation of the 2nd, the political landscape concerning gun control has changed since the O was elected. Five years ago gun control was consdered, by the majority of pro-gun folks, as idiotic crime control policy and a violation of the 2nd. Today, it would be considered THE first step towards TYRANNY and a violation of the 2nd.

The response to such a treaty becoming law would be far more "intense" and much more "fierce" than the reaction Americans have had to sociallized medicine.

Article 2 Section 2

"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur..."

Article 6

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding
 
Thank you very much! I agree with you that it would take something really outrageous for him to get a 2/3's vote.

I keep being amazed at how far thinking our founding fathers were, the Constitution is an amazing document!
 
Thank you very much! I agree with you that it would take something really outrageous for him to get a 2/3's vote.

I keep being amazed at how far thinking our founding fathers were, the Constitution is an amazing document!

You are welcome. I agree with you about the Founders as well. They were blessed with such wisedom, forethought and understanding of human nature that I have come to the conclusion it was with devine inspiration that this country was created.

The only fault that I can find with the system of government they founded was that they failed to predict and constitutionally prepare for the two party system. That is what is chilling this country today.
 
My thoughts on the UN Treaty on Small Arms:

If the current administration chooses to sign this treaty they will do exactly as they have done in trying to ram health care legislation through. Buy off as many senators as they can (with your grandchildrens' money), get it signed into law, and implement it right away. Then it will be up to us to fight an uphill battle in the courts for years arguing the superiority of the Constitution over an international treaty.

In the meantime they will be seizing a lot of firearms and ammunition from those unwilling to join the fight.
 
As we have now seen in the Scott Brown election as well as the VA & NJ governor’s races, the worm can turn. The town meetings, gatherings in DC and monthly around here, show an aroused citizenry.

Some of the Dem Senators in the Western States are in citadels of self-defense and the second amendment. They fear an aroused citizenry, they have a very cushy job where their peers make $175k and get very rich in about two terms.
Reelection is their be all and end all.

Harry Reid is very successful at bribing Senators with our tax money, but I think Old Harry (My Grand Dad’s name for Satan) would tell BHO that there are not the votes in the Senate. In fact, I suspect Harry wouldn’t vote for such a treaty either.

My assessment; stay very alert, but don’t worry about this shoe dropping just yet.
 
The point that Alexis De Toqueville(sp) made back when the founding fathers were alive is coming to roost. The republic will only last until those in power find they can bribe the people with their own money. (paraphrased of course but the thoughts the same).
 
I am trying to remember who said this, was it Eisenhower?

anyhow this is paraphrased

We will be in real trouble when we get a President who was not in the Military.

Well we have had 2, Clinton and Obama

nuff said :eek:
 
The point that Alexis De Toqueville(sp) made back when the founding fathers were alive is coming to roost. The republic will only last until those in power find they can bribe the people with their own money. (paraphrased of course but the thoughts the same).

Exactly this!


And, I love the Founding Fathers as much as anyone, but they weren't perfect. Their biggest mistake? The politically-expedient acceptance of slavery when they were writing a libertarian document.

That plus the point PDL made above means that the US is doomed the same all other republics. We can only hope that we educate and empower the future generations well enough that a new generation of "Founding Fathers" will do it better next time. Might happen in our lifetimes, but I doubt it. Probably in our grandkids or the grandkids' grandkids lifetimes...
 
The point that Alexis De Toqueville(sp) made back when the founding fathers were alive is coming to roost. The republic will only last until those in power find they can bribe the people with their own money. (paraphrased of course but the thoughts the same).

This is a valid point and it certainly resonates with us when we see the current state of our government and social structure. As a point of interest, this basic quotation has also been attributed to everyone from DeTocqueville and Tytler to Marx and Aristotle in an effort to legitimize it and magnify the inherent truth it conveys.

DeTocqueville was an interesting man and his seminal work, "Democracy in America," although somewhat tedious, is a "must read." Interestingly, it is notoriously misrepresented by people across the political spectrum to support their own position. Recent election cycles have seen it quoted by Conservatives and Hillary Clinton alike as it suited their political needs.

DeTocqueville's basic premise revolved around his firm belief that democratic governance could not succeed without an educated electorate. In fact, he spends a good deal of time in "Democracy" emphasizing the fact that every log cabin he entered in the American Wilderness had a copy of the Bible...more often than not accompanied by literary works of Shakespeare, Milton, etcetra...which really impressed him. As a French Noble, he also wrestled with the role of property rights in a democratic society...and his ideas about land ownership and property rights may seem a little foreign to the 21st Century reader.

Basically, DeTocqueville was spot on. Self governance requires education, knowledge and understanding of the issues, and sobriety (and, as in all matters, a little bit of integrity is a plus). My feeling is that we were pretty good at this in the beginning, but around the time of the Civil War we started to change the rules of the game. As we expanded the electorate through almost universal suffrage, we lost our high degree of education, knowledge/understanding of issues, and, most importantly, sobriety...because we lost the attitude that the decisions we made impacted us all and we went from being an electorate of taxpayers to being an electorate of government service consumers.

In a nutshell, we have expanded the electorate to the point that the self interest of the majority now clearly conflicts with the best interests of the country. The simplest solution is to revert to a system where only those who contribute vote, as it was in the most places in the early days of the Republic when only landowners could vote.
 
I keep hearing that if Obama signs the UN treaty outlawing private ownership of guns, whether by executive order or by just signing it, it would superscede the Constitution since it is International Law.

Can an International Treaty or Law be higher than our Constitution? and if so how?

No. And what is more, I would be thrilled to see the squatter in the white house act stupidly in this matter. The consequences for him and his party of domestic terrorist would be extreme.
 
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