Is my timing correct? Just back from my Gunsmith!

[Sid V.]

Hand

It sounds like the revolver needs a wider hand.Brownells sells wider hands. That should fix the slow cylinder.

Dennis Vertrees #1188

 

[Jalopiejoe]

Very interesting thread. I have read through this
thread several times. Jalopiejoe, is your 617-6 .22lr
a 10 shot?

I studied your photos and it appears that the hand
has a pointy sharp ratchet finger.

Out of curiosity and to verify what my 6 shot hand
has, it is wedge shaped, like my Mdl 629s, 625,
and Mdl 686.

Which Ratchet finger is yours supposed to use?

It's a 10 shot!

 

[dsf]

Gunsmithing S&W since 1961?
You're the one I should be talking to!

I took my 617-6 to a highly recommended Gunsmith for an action job and now some of the chambers on the cylinder fall short of locking on the bolt!

He advertised that "timing correction" is part of his action job!
The gun is practically new so wear is not a problem. I would think all it needs is a new standard size hand.

I could use your help !
Please advise!!!

Question and comments.

Did you perform the test prior to bringing the gun in for work?

Regarding lock up, my best shorthand way of explaining is that final lock up on a Smith is accomplished horizontally rather than vertically. The hand fit snugly in the frame slot should hold tight against the ratchet teeth on the cylinder. The cylinder ratchet teeth perform a sort of two stage - lifts first, transitions to fully rotated and lock up 2nd.

On newer Smiths using CNC I've found that the ratchet teeth are sometimes a bit proud. In SA mode you can really feel things snug up as thumbing back reaches full cock, then pressing the trigger.

If your gunsmith did any polish work on the side of the hand it's likely been thinned out. I've had good results with the plain old factory Smith replacement. The Powers costs more and requires fitting but you'll definitely get full timing and tight lock up.

As an aside, a new hand may turn the cylinder before the cylinder bolt is cammed down, causing felt hesitation at the start of cycling.

 

[Dvus]

If your gunsmith did any polish work on the side of the hand it's likely been thinned out. I've had good results with the plain old factory Smith replacement. The Powers costs more and requires fitting but you'll definitely get full timing and tight lock up.

As an aside, a new hand may turn the cylinder before the cylinder bolt is cammed down, causing felt hesitation at the start of cycling.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^This.
Reading through this thread, I have been waiting for someone to say this. Any time the hand is polished it is thinned, and if the timing was frog hair fine before the polish job, then it will do what you are explaining now.
Now, what is happening may very well not be the gunsmiths fault at all, after all, you did ask for an action job. The very nature of the action job is to smooth out areas of contact to reduce friction. One of these areas is the slot that the hand slides through. If there was a small imperfection that he smoothed out, that could be enough to cause this issue in a very closely timed lockwork. If the gunsmith is a man of reputation, he will make the necessary corrections, but be prepared to pay an extra fee because he has no control over the original factory tolerances. What works on one gun will not necessarily work on the very next one, because a thousandth on one part and a thousandth on a second part can make four different tolerance combinations. And we all know S&Ws quality control can be an oxymoron these days.
Bottom line, cut the guy some slack. Express your expectations up front, and allow him what he needs to get it done. The more willing you are to work with him civilly, the more likely he is to make you happy.

 

[Imissedagain]

Giving a gun back to the customer that is not in time or not working properly.... bad smith.
No excuses.

Over the decades I've seen many radars with the heading markers off 10, 15 or more degrees.
Incompetent or lazy techs.
Dangerous as well.
Narrow inlet in a storm, South Pacific island or Boca/Hillsboro Inlet.

 

[Imissedagain]

A detailed read, not for the Faint of Heart.

I always read that and other tech books aloud.

 

[RetCapt]

I have been following this thread closely since this is an issue of interest to me.

I shoot all of my DA revolvers DA only, even at fifty yards. I got into this habit shooting PPC competition. I found it so effective and preferable that DA became my only mode. A couple of my revolvers even have spurless hammers. As far as carry up goes though, DA is even more challenging to tune. The DA stroke is shorter, but the necessity for the cylinder to be locked up prior to the hammer fall is still there. What I do to test my revolvers is what has been stated here already; I very slowly cycle the revolver DA, keeping my thumb on the hammer to prevent it from falling, and make sure the bolt locks the cylinder before the hammer would release.

When I was teaching shooting, which was back in the revolver era, I would safety check the revolvers of students who brought in revolvers rather than using the college revolvers. This was one of the tests I performed. It was infrequent, but I did find instances of inability to carry up in both S&W and Colt revolvers, more so in Colts.

(Note: No offense intended and not a shot at Colt. I own a Python. Also, with the Colt I found that the more effective way to test was to cycle the DA, holding the hammer back, then once the hammer would release, very slowly lower it all the way down and then check to see if the cylinder was locked).

When I found this condition, I would always point this out to the student. If I suspected that this would be a problem in the relatively rapid fire we would be doing, I did not allow the revolver on the range.

I agree with other posters that your first stop should be the gunsmith who did the original job. Be diplomatic but insistent and give him the opportunity to make it right.

Whatever it takes though, whether it is the gunsmith who originally tuned the revolver or someone else, it needs to be put back in spec.

 

[chief38]

Take the gun to a qualified, competent, reliable and knowledgeable gunsmith.
Nick

Those qualifications are extremely hard to find these days! Most of the old time high quality GS's are retired and long gone. The hand full left are ridiculously expensive, have reduculous wait times, are usually not near you and shipping is a hassle. They are truly few and far between these days!

 

[muzzlestuffer2012]

Those qualifications are extremely hard to find these days! Most of the old time high quality GS's are retired and long gone. The hand full left are ridiculously expensive, have reduculous wait times, are usually not near you and shipping is a hassle. They are truly few and far between these days!

Not only that the backlog and the cost alone is ridiculous I've had many bad experiences with gunsmiths so if I can do it myself I do !!

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

 

[racer19j]

Put a standard hand in it and it will work just fine.

 

[Jalopiejoe]

I got it back, looks good!

I got my 617 back from the gunsmith yesterday and now the carry-up is just fine!
He told me he adjusts the timing by heating and bending the hand?
I'm glad to have it back! ☺

 

[Jalopiejoe]

I just got my 617 back, it looks good!

I got my 617 back from my Gunsmith yesterday and the carry-up is fine now!
He says he corrects the timing by heating and bending the hand?
Glad it's home!

 

[bigggbbruce]

I just got my 617 back, it looks good!

I got my 617 back from my Gunsmith yesterday and the carry-up is fine now!
He says he corrects the timing by heating and bending the hand?
Glad it's home!

I know this is an older thread. I haven't been around for a while and was just going over old posts.

I had to bring it back and respond to this.

I've never heard of bending the hand to correct timing. May work but by no means the proper way to do it. Most times simply replacing a worn hand with the same size will work as the contact point has worn. Replacing with a wider hand is the next step, widening the window may be necessary.

Bending the hand goes against the design of the action.

I hope your gun is still happy.