Is older 115gr 9mm OK for CCW?

[GF]

I have a Sig P 6 that is reliable with 115gr ammo only. Not really a problem, I have Federal BP9 115gr and Remington hollowpoint on hand.
I read a magazine article in this months GUNS that addressed the legal aspects of over penetration of hardball ammo. I know my ammo is hollowpoint, but it's "old school" bullet design that resembles the hardball round point.

I know, just go buy a box of Hornady Critical defense or Golden Saber and put the old stuff up.
BUT.... I've carried the Federal and Remington ammo for a long time and I wonder if old design 115gr has a reputation for over penetration?

I shoulda' asked this question about my carry ammo before I read the article!

Thanks for your input.

GF

 

[Grog]

If that's the "9BP" load you have, it'll work well enough and be an easy to shoot round. I used that for an ex-G/F in her 9mm since she had an issue with the GA Arms screamers I liked


Velocity
Muzzle: 1180
@50 yards: 1048
@100yards: 961

Energy, ft-lbs
Muzzle: 356
@50yards: 280
@100yards: 236

 

[derrelw]

Thats what I carry in my P239 & P229. Great ammo.

 

[jimmyj]

Several years ago my Agency received a bulletin from the FBI concerning the overpenetration of handgun rounds. The FBI reported that overpenetration was not an issue and a moot concern.
After this bulletin the Agency allowed 10mm, 41mag, and .44mag handguns to be carried as personal owned service weapons.
Jimmy
Jimmy

 

[max]

Your ammo will be fine. I sent my P6 to Custom Creationzs and for $45 they will modify your barrel so that it will feed anything.

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

Several years ago my Agency received a bulletin from the FBI concerning the overpenetration of handgun rounds. The FBI reported that overpenetration was not an issue and a moot concern.
After this bulletin the Agency allowed 10mm, 41mag, and .44mag handguns to be carried as personal owned service weapons.
Jimmy
Jimmy

Of course the FBI would condone the ignoring of overpenetrating bullets:
1) Theyre part of the Federal government
2) They condone the use of heavy, deep penetrating bullets.
3) If they injure/kill someone with an OP'ing bullet and get sued, they have the lawyers to tie up a civil case for years.
4) If the FBI eventually loses a civil suit, they have the deep pockets of the Fed behind them.

The vast majority of city and county LEA's don't have the time or the deep pockets to fight off a civil wrongful death lawsuit.

I'm fairly sure that those who have been maimed and killed by OP'ing bullets (both law enforcement officers and citizens alike) would have wished that they didn't catch that bullet that passed through the badguy first.

 

[Dragon88]

To the OP, your ammo is fine, stop overthinking it.

Of course the FBI would condone the ignoring of overpenetrating bullets:
1) Theyre part of the Federal government
2) They condone the use of heavy, deep penetrating bullets.
3) If they injure/kill someone with an OP'ing bullet and get sued, they have the lawyers to tie up a civil case for years.
4) If the FBI eventually loses a civil suit, they have the deep pockets of the Fed behind them.

The vast majority of city and county LEA's don't have the time or the deep pockets to fight off a civil wrongful death lawsuit.

I'm fairly sure that those who have been maimed and killed by OP'ing bullets (both law enforcement officers and citizens alike) would have wished that they didn't catch that bullet that passed through the badguy first.

Huh? What are you basing your statement on? Do you think that federal agents go around shooting with complete disregard just because they work for the Federal government? Come on...

Overpenetration is an interesting topic, but please refer back to one of the first rules we all should have learned before ever firing a gun:

Be sure of your target and what is in front of and beyond your target.

 

[Grog]

The 9BP round is not a FMJ round and is not known for over-penetration.


Just because it's not the newest Wonder-Bullet™ does not mean it will not expand.

 

[GF]

The 9BP round is not a FMJ round and is not known for over-penetration.


Just because it's not the newest Wonder-Bullet™ does not mean it will not expand.

That's kinda' what I thought & hoped was the case. The Federal has a good history with the Illinois State Police. From what I read here and other places, it's still well thought of.

New design bullets don't do as well as old ones in some cases. Seems like I remember a 147gr round that was phased out by LE for overpentration.

I have thought about the modification to the Sig as poster Max suggested, but it shoots so well with the 115 gr ammo and is as accurate (more so) as any gun I own, I hate to mess with it.

GF

 

[OKFC05]

Just a related observation:

Magazine articles tend to cover topics that keep the advertisers happy and promote products; understandable, they are there to make money.

You don't see many articles that consider the shooter's limitations, like the fact that most bullets fired in gunfights miss their target.
While bullet penetration is a consideration, taking a shot with innocents behind the target and depending on the bullet staying in the target is very risky. Where is the bullet going when you just miss?

 

[Rob1109]

To the OP, your ammo is fine, stop overthinking it.



Huh? What are you basing your statement on? Do you think that federal agents go around shooting with complete disregard just because they work for the Federal government? Come on...

Overpenetration is an interesting topic, but please refer back to one of the first rules we all should have learned before ever firing a gun:

Be sure of your target and what is in front of and beyond your target.

A recent shooting in the Las Vegas federal court house/building resulted in 1 guard killed and one serverly wounded. In a foot pursuit federal agents fired 81 rounds (that's eightyone rounds) at the BG and HIT HIM TWICE! killing him. the miracle is that no innocents were hit. TALK ABOUT SPRAY AND PRAY! there were bullet holes everywhere!
We never heard/saw any final report on the shooting (conviently).....a partial video is somewhere on YouTube.....

 

[Dogguy]

The Federal 9BP had a good street reputation in the past--considered by many to be the best of the standard power 9mm loadings. While ammunition technology has advanced over the years, the physical structure of the human being has not evolved to any measurable degree. Expect the load to perform as well today as ever.

 

[moosedog]

Ammunition technology and performance has advanced like everything else. The 9mm has always had a reputation for over penetration. Justly warranted.
Life is too important to not advance with the times. I'd get the best ammo availible for your 9mm if thats what your stuck with or advance to a 40 or 45. Good luck.

 

[ajpelz]

A recent shooting in the Las Vegas federal court house/building resulted in 1 guard killed and one serverly wounded. In a foot pursuit federal agents fired 81 rounds (that's eightyone rounds) at the BG and HIT HIM TWICE! killing him. the miracle is that no innocents were hit. TALK ABOUT SPRAY AND PRAY! there were bullet holes everywhere!
We never heard/saw any final report on the shooting (conviently).....a partial video is somewhere on YouTube.....

In my city, two local LEOs were in a shoot out with a BG robbing a gas station. Both officers emptied two magazines each, with no hits on anyone. That is 62 shots, plus the BGs, and no one hit. Marksmanship is obviously not a priority.

 

[Trooper224]

Here we go again.

Let the cop bashing by paper punching range commandos begin.

 

[ajpelz]

Here we go again.

Let the cop bashing by paper punching range commandos begin.

It is not bashing. I respect cops, but you think 0/62 is okay? If I, as a civilian, fired 30+ shots in a self-defense scenario, and hit no one, you are saying there would be no scrutiny?

 

[Grog]

Here we go again.

Let the cop bashing by paper punching range commandos begin.

There are lots of times where cops have sent TONS of rounds downrange without making a lot of contact. When you figure just how many police shootings there have been over the years since the spread of large-capacity handguns, some of them are bound to spray and pray. I tend to not take anything on the internet at face value, probably why I don't go to gunshops or gunshows much either.


There was a shooting close to where I lived in NC where there was lots of rounds fired and not a lot of hitting. The ones that did hit did penetrate rather well. I had a friend (in a different department) that didn't like the 147gr after that so I told him not to worry, he might not hit the suspect at all

 

[Dragon88]

Here we go again.

Let the cop bashing by paper punching range commandos begin.

Yup. Put most of these guys in a life threatening situation and see how many of their rounds connect with the target.

Do LEO need more training, more range time, more ammunition, more funding, less cut-backs? Of course. But the statement that triggered this line of discussion suggested that they go around shooting with wanton disregard because they are the government and do whatever they want with no repercussions. That is ridiculous. I haven't served a day as a civilian LEO but I respect them and give them the benefit of the doubt because I believe in most cases they do the best they can with what they have.

But this is getting way off topic from the OP.

 

[flop-shank]

I don't carry a 9mm, but old school 115 gr. +P+ JHPs would be on my short list along with 124 gr. +P Gold Dots and Winchester 127 gr. +P+. All of the above loads are IMO pretty darn close to the 125 gr. .357 JHP in effectiveness.

 

[JohnK]

All of the above loads are IMO pretty darn close to the 125 gr. .357 JHP in effectiveness.>>>>>>>>

Flopshank has that right.

I tire of people disparaging the 9mm, and praise a mediocre .38 Special load.

A 115gr HP at 1350fps is SERIOUS stuff.I've killed small deer DRT several times. Close, and heart shot.