Is trigger staging bad?

[rwsmith]

When shooting my 686 in DA, the trigger pull is long and a little heavy. I'm not complaining, the trigger is like silk and I can shoot it rapid fire no problem. But when shooting for precision in DA, sometime I 'stop' the action short of firing if the sight wanders off target. I do dry fire exercises and other things to disassociate my finger from the rest of my hand, but overall, I can't always maintain total steadiness all through a shot.

What is the best way to do this? Is stopping the pull good form if you know the sight isn't aligned perfectly? Or should I just aim and pull the trigger to the breaking point, then take a more precise aim and shoot?

I just want to make sure I'm doing it 'right' instead of practicing bad habits. I'm not bad just letting off rounds in SD type shooting. I just want to improve my target abilities. Of course this carries over into any DA gun.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Personally, I prefer pulling a DA trigger straight through without staging.

I don't know if staging a trigger is "bad," but I find less sight picture disturbance when pulling straight through.

I think part of the problem is speed. For precise shooting, you don't need to pull the trigger as quickly as you can, but I think it's possible to pull the trigger too slowly. Pulling a DA trigger too slowly allows for more of the small micro-movements that happen any time you pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger as consistently and smoothly as you can without hesitation keeps those micro-movements to a minimum. I find it also helps with the "surprise" break.

One part of the solution is to do dry fire practice, but really focus on the trigger pull as a continuous motion by ignoring the sight picture, maybe even tape over the sights. Just watch the gun. When you can pull the trigger as a smooth, continuous motion while the gun remains fairly still, then add sight work.

One other thing that may help is to let your finger slide across the trigger face as you pull the trigger back. You don't need to root the finger in place on the trigger as long as you're pulling it straight back. By letting your trigger finger slide across the trigger, it helps with maintaining continuous motion.

Just my opinion.

 

[Pisgah]

I was absolutely pathetic shooting DA for years, trying to "stage" the trigger for that perfect shot break. Finally, I had the luck to meet a retired police officer and lifelong competitive shooter at the range one day who took me under his wing and taught me that staging should be avoided at all costs. Aim, concentrate on the front sight, and stroke the trigger through without any hesitation, nice and smooth. Since then I have helped many other folks learn the technique. It's counterintuitive, I guess, but it really does work.

 

[D Brown]

DA Shooting - Straight Through

I vote for pulling straight through.

I've always thought the idea of "staging" a trigger was utter nonsense.

 

[kenneu]

If I stage I'm less accurate than if I pull straight through in a smooth motion. In the bit of trigger work I've done so far, smoothing out that point where the staging occurs, for me, is a good thing. I want it to not catch along the way and impact POA.

 

[Echo40]

Staging a trigger just doesn't work in terms of accuracy (not for me, at least) and I find that I shoot more accurately simply by squeezing the trigger straight back without hesitation in DA.

 

[apollo99]

I have a colt Python , and like most of them from the factory they have a staging area built in. For about $300 you can get it massaged out if you don't like it. The problem with staging for me is unless the revolver sets up, and releases at the exact same place on all 6 cylinders the resulting target could be a disaster. I have a '47 M&P I can't stage for the life of me, and a 27-2 that is smooth as butter and the resistance and the break is the same on all cylinders.

 

[rwsmith]

It really sounds......

From reading these comments, it seems that I should work on not staging the trigger.

 

[pittpa]

Not sure what you mean by "a little heavy", my Python trigger runs around 7.5#, but with the 8" barrel, mount and red dot, it weighs 4#. I have been shooting this Python in Bullseye competition for over 20 years. I have shot many of those sweet S&W triggers as well, including a 625-8 JM I'm using in Bullseye recently, and my friend's 66, which I would love to use in matches. I shoot timed and rapid fire double action. At first, I tried rapid fire single action, and got away with it, but I was real busy doing it. Now, while I might prefer to shoot timed fire single action, I really need the timed fire as a D/A warmup for rapid fire.
I started out staging the trigger before I ever heard the term. I got away with it for years, but I never heard it was a good idea. I guess it comes down to what you can make work for you. Nowadays I tend to talk myself into a straight-through pull for rapid fire; with the python, that works better the faster I shoot. Sometimes in rapid fire I shoot an unintended quick double that hits the black. In timed fire, I tend to stage it; but for me that is the nature of the Python trigger. The weight of 8" barrel helps, though. There is a lot written on the subject by folks a lot better than I. You should look for some of those authors.

 

[Fishinfool]

I always shoot DA with a straight thru, smooth stroke of the trigger. Its how I was trained, and practiced. Some shooters might do better by staging, and I guess its OK if you only shoot your revolvers at the range. But, if you should find yourself in a self defense situation with a DA revolver, you tend to revert to "muscle memory", and will most likely find yourself trying to stage the trigger, and that could cost you valuable time.

With enough practice, DA shooting can be very accurate and fast. Grips that fit you and maintain proper trigger pull angle are important. A narrow, polished trigger helps. Back when revolvers ruled in police work, most all high scoring shooters during qualification did not stage their pull. Same with revolver PPC.

Larry

 

[7shooter]

I never stage when I shoot in self defense matches or when I practice dry firing with my Model 64.

I am going to use that technique today when I take my renewal test for my carry permit. I will be shooting a Glock 17 that requires 5 separate 5 shot stages at varying distances ( free style , strong hand only, and support hand only ) all at 10 second times.

I will fully engage the trigger for the first shot and then allow the trigger to reset and then press the trigger for subsequent shots all the while focusing on the front sight. Quite accurate and effective for me in this artificial situation.

 

[Wise_A]

On a S&W, don't stage the trigger, just pull it through. On a Colt, stage the trigger, they were built that way (read: wrong). I don't know about Rugers, I think you're supposed to throw them?

But don't mind the the sights so much, either. With irons, just keep them aligned. Red dots are a little less intuitive, but if you're rocking a revo, you're probably not using one.

Note: I fully expect backlash on this post, because it sounds like sacrilege. This oughta get ya'll prepped for the sting...remember when your gran-pappy told you that you should be surprised when the trigger breaks? Yeah, he didn't know anything about shooting.

With iron sights, there's basically only one thing that matters: keeping them aligned as the trigger breaks. That's it. Note I didn't say aligned to the target.

Where the front sight actually is in relation to the target is unimportant for three reasons (all of which have a counterpart in red dot usage, for those wondering):

--Unaligned sights create a much larger "miss" with far less perceptible movement of the gun than simply aiming badly.

--Improving your hold can only be accomplished through improving your technique, and training. You cannot focus yourself into holding steady. And in most cases, using good shooting technique will allow you to out-shoot your apparent hold.

--The sights aren't showing you where the shot will go, because the trigger hasn't broken yet. Calling the shot after you take it tells you where the shot went, and that's as far as you can know. Think of it this way: if your point of aim is in constant motion, and you try to shoot as the sights are in the 10-ring, the only thing you're guaranteed not to hit is the 10-ring--because by the time the bullet left the barrel, the sights were somewhere else.

shoot in self defense matches

No offense, but what are these? They sound extremely unwise. I mean, who would enter a contest where half the entrants were dead by the end of the first round?

 

[7shooter]

Originally Posted by 7shooter

shoot in self defense matches

No offense, but what are these? They sound extremely unwise. I mean, who would enter a contest where half the entrants were dead by the end of the first round?

I'm going to assume that you really don't know and are not being sarcastic.

I suggest you look up USPSA and IDPA.

 

[scooter123]

You will tend to shoot how you practice. So, picture this, you are faced an armed assailant and you need to Defend yourself. What do you think the outcome will be if you stop to "stage" the trigger? Yeah, NOT good.

To put it very simply Staging the Trigger is a BAD HABIT.

PS: I recently had my 620 at the range and it is equipped with a J Point Reflex sight and I have personally shot this revolver to under 1 inch at 50 yards off a rest. However almost all of my handgun shooting is Defensive practice at split times ranging between 0.25 and 0.35 seconds. No matter how careful I was about sighting and trigger stroke I just couldn't hit well at all in single action slow fire at 15 yards. However when I got fed up with my miserable performance in slow fire I started shooting the way I normally practice and started shooting the kind of groups that are typical for me. Seems I now shoot more accurately shooting rapid fire than I do slow fire in single action. As for why this is my hunch is that I was using a much more relaxed grip in single action and just didn't have good recoil management. However it could be that when I speed up I concentrate more.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I will fully engage the trigger for the first shot and then allow the trigger to reset and then press the trigger for subsequent shots all the while focusing on the front sight. Quite accurate and effective for me in this artificial situation.

That's how you should always shoot your Glock, regardless of the "situation . . . "

 

[7shooter]

Muss,

I probably do what you are advising but am not aware of doing it because I am shooting fast. In the case of my test I have a known amount of time ( 10 seconds ) so can plan on using the time to improve accuracy.

 

[zogger]

I was absolutely pathetic shooting DA for years, trying to "stage" the trigger for that perfect shot break. Finally, I had the luck to meet a retired police officer and lifelong competitive shooter at the range one day who took me under his wing and taught me that staging should be avoided at all costs. Aim, concentrate on the front sight, and stroke the trigger through without any hesitation, nice and smooth. Since then I have helped many other folks learn the technique. It's counterintuitive, I guess, but it really does work.

Agree. If you are going to stage, why are you shooting DA instead of SA?

 

[nachogrande]

IS IT BAD?

BAD, for the gun??? From a NON gunsmith, I suppose having the entire wt/tension on a smaller bearing surface MAY BE less than optimal. How long might it take for a problem to be noticed, if ever??? Following an accident with feeling loss & neuropathy & having to re-learn to shoot lefty first, then back to right handed, taught me a great deal & showed me that I was staging more than I realized. Now, I don't believe in 1 way being "best" for everyone, but I'd say learn to shoot single action, cocking the hammer with the weak hand thumb thus keeping a constant grip with the dominant hand, & shooting in D/A mode without staging. With the feeling loss, staging the trigger is no longer as reliable (safe) & one shot will get away from me now and again. NOT a great thing for S/D or for a LEO & may be why we see DAO becoming more common. From a training/learning standpoint I believe staging sends a "kind of" mixed message to ones muscle memory & can lead to over thinking, which has never done me well. The principles of KISS, & slow/sure is "fast" may apply a great deal for many/most.

 

[H Richard]

When competing in bullseye competition you are not allowed to have but one hand to facilitate the gun, your weak hand is no where near the gun.

I must admit with bullseye I went to a semi-auto early on, but with PPC competition I did shoot a revolver quite a bit and did practice the straight through the shot trigger break. No staging.

 

[Wise_A]

I'm going to assume that you really don't know and are not being sarcastic.

I suggest you look up USPSA and IDPA.

Noap. Being sarcastic as all get-up. They're nice for skill-building and familiarity and such, but I sure wouldn't characterize them as self-defense matches. Like any other form of competition, they're a game.