It's a PUZZLEMENT !!

[swampersand]

In doing some housekeeping I ran across a pre 17 I hadn't documented and now I'm sorry I'm so careless. This 6" 4 screw with matching diamond magna's is in the very high 90s and is in high polish blue. The strange things are that the sn on the butt 300500 approx is repeated on the back of the ejector star but not on the cylinder or barrel. The flat of the barrel appeared to have a stripe of rust that turned out to be a rust colored paint over what had been a serial number before being ground out very carefully before the barrel was blued. The flat of the barrel also has been stamped with the ampersand die so far to the front of of the flat that it almost had to have been done before the extractor rod retainer pin and spring were installed and it appears to have been stamped before bluing. There are no apparent rework stamps on the grip frame.

My guess is this is a late 4 screw and someone was cleaning up the parts bin during assembly. I have often read on the forum that S &W didn't waste parts and didn't stand on ceremony so that makes sense. The ampersand stamp, however, puzzles me unless it was to add some creditability to the sn removal by adding a stamp from a die not normally available to the average bear.

Any thoughts?

PS: I am nowhere good enough with a camera to show the barrel flat in the detail it would require.

 

[glowe]

My impression is that the S&W factory would never install a barrel and grind out the serial number. Even if it was a parts bin barrel, they would have stamped it with the proper serial number and would never paint over the ground out serial number. You did not mention what is stamped on the rear of the cylinder? What, if anything, is stamped there?

 

[handejector]

Serial numbered barrels and cylinders were abandoned very early in the 4 screw era, so your gun should not have them.

Why the barrel had a serial number there is the mystery. I do know for a fact that S&W would re-number a barrel if an error had been made. Check out this gun- http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...nteresting-anomaly-4-inch-1950-44-target.html

Your barrel had probably been numbered for another gun, and for whatever reason was not used. Can you read the number? I would really like to see a pic of that. I doubt that what you saw was brown paint. I think it was more likely dried oil, or possibly dried rust scum, or a mixture of the two.

 

[swampersand]

The cylinder bears no number or other markings. The obliterated serial number may be enhanceable with a solvent or other means and I'll give it a try. I removed the stripe of red "stuff" with the flat side of a screwdriver and it flaked off like paint but there is still a residue where that was, I'll try to remove it. Probably unrelated but just for info, the right side of the grip frame has a V stamped on it and the left side has what looks very much like a Toyota symbol, but very small, probably less than 3/32" tall. That symbol is on the very left edge of the frame near the bottom.

I'll see what I can do about getting a photo of the barrel flat.

 

[handejector]

Take a pic of the "paint" also.
Oil can literally turn to varnish, and it chips as you describe.
It is far safer to use powder solvent, acetone, or your wife's fingernail polish remover(acetone) than a screwdriver.

 

[swampersand]

Pictures (if I'm lucky!)

I'll try posting some photos I just took of the area. Ref the screwdriver, I was VERY CAREFUL, like a brain surgeon. I think the paint was red lead. Pictures were taken so the ampersand was right side up, sn would normally read from the other side I think.










This one seems to have some kind of an image, but I sure can't make anything out of it.

 

[Skeetr57]

S&W sometimes has done odd things. I have New Model #3 target in .32- 44 that was completely redone by the factory in 1956. It was renickled, the sights re-blued and the hammer, trigger and trigger guard re-case colored. It looks like a brand new gun, except the barrel is numbered 508 in the recesses, but the latch has the correct number for the frame. I was showing this gun to a very advanced collector, and he said that he owned gun number 508, and that it was a special order with a 5" barrel. My guess is that when the order came in for the 5" gun, S&W took an already completed standard gun and put a new barrel on it, leaving the barrel that is on my gun to be used at a later date. My gun is Sn 1865, and there is no way to tell whether the # 508 barrel was used when the gun was built, or whether it lay around the factory for over fifty years and was put on in 1956 when my gun was refurbished.

 

[glowe]

swampersand - You call your revolver a Pre-M17, but could you tell us the caliber? M17s were 22 LR and normally called the K22 Outdoorsman or Masterpiece. As you note, something is not right about the serial number you reference, since the Outdoorsman started with sn631132 and the Masterpiece started with sn683420. 300,000 puts it into the 38 Special range.

Also, the back of the barrel has no shoulder, which I think is wrong for all K-22s (somebody please correct me if this is wrong). The barrel looks more like a Model 1899 or early 32-20 with its straight tapered barrel. Could it have been turned and reshaped? No serial number on the rear of the cylinder puts it at risk of being a put-together-gun, most likely outside the factory.

One theory is that you have a M&P frame, maybe originally in 38 Special that was converted to 22 LR. Unmarked cylinder and odd barrel would do the trick, but the hammer would also need to be replaced.

 

[swampersand]

MY BAD

Gary, I should have been a lot more careful in my description. The gun is a K22 and is barrel marked "22 LONG RIFLE CTG" Had I been thinking I would have included the K in the serial number.

 

[glowe]

Gary, I should have been a lot more careful in my description. The gun is a K22 and is barrel marked "22 LONG RIFLE CTG" Had I been thinking I would have included the K in the serial number.

That would put the frame at 1957-1958. After checking, K22s in your timeframe, the barrel is consistent with others and did not have a shoulder. Still does not help answer the barrel and cylinder questions. I doubt that a factory letter would help either, so the revolver will most likely remain a mystery.

 

[handejector]

I answered the barrel and cylinder question earlier- they should not have numbers.
Soft fitting was abandoned very early in the 4 screw era, so only very early 4 screws have numbered parts in normal production.

I don't believe this barrel was ever numbered. The tool marks that are visible are normal form cutting the flat. They extend in continuous lines well beyond the white area. I don't know what lifted the blue in that area, but it was not removing a number. There would also likely be an indentation if a number had been ground.
High polish blue became standard very late in the 5 screw era.
So- no big mystery. You have a normal, late Pre-17 Four screw with a spot of blue missing.