J Frame .357 defense load question

[lawrencemr]

Hi,

I'd like to work up a load for a 158-180 grain bullet to carry in my 360 PD. I'd put about 10-15 rounds a month of these through my gun. Any suggestions? Any danger of cylinder erosion with the heavier bullets? What powders do you like?

I'm not convinced that the 125-140 grain bullets will be adequate when fired from the short barrel. I practice with these.

I shoot a fair number of 148 grain hollow base through it for routine practice. They tend to lead the chambers quickly. I've tried seating with about 3/8 inch of the lead exposed but don't notice any difference in leading.

Thanks

 

[Rule3]

Your a Glutton for punishment

JMHO but I do not think it makes a whole lot of difference what you use in a 357 Mag. You can only eek out so much from a 2" alloy snub. If you want lead, a 158 hr LSWC HP with any of the max listed loads/ powders. H110. 2400 etc. You get more blast and flash for what?

 

[David LaPell]

How about a 170 grain #358429 SWC in .38 +P brass with 12.5 grains of 2400. Make that out of air dropped wheel weights and it should be an attention getter. Or 152 grain #358156 HP and 12.5 grains seated in the lower crimp groove in .38 +P brass or 13.0 grains of 2400 in .357 brass seated in the top crimp groove.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm sorry but you couldn't get me to fire a 180gr .357 Magnum round from a 12oz revolver, now how no way!

IMO a 125gr or 140gr bullet will probably be best in that revolver. The lighter bullet will allow you to keep the velocities up without exceeding the SAAMI pressure limits.

 

[WR Moore]

IIRC, the j-frame snubs were designed around the 125 gr Magnum round. There might be overall length issues with heavier bullets in magnum length cases.

 

[sourdough44]

I'd be somewhere in the neighborhood of a 140 grn bullet to 38 +p levels. I do have a 340PD & that's usually enough for me. If you already have a good supply of the bullets mentioned, maybe try them at 38 +p levels.

 

[Ranger98]

357 Mag Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr.

 

[lawrencemr]

Thanks to all who have and are responding. I appreciate the input. I don't plan to feed it a steady diet of these things- just enought to maintain proficiency. I have shot several factory boxes of .357, 158 grain JHPs without a problem. So length isn't an issue. I'm a revolver guy and the J is light enough to carry all of the time. I have friends who have had less than satisfactory results on bad guys with hyper velocity, light hollowpoints. So I just want to learn from their experience. It is tolerable to shoot with 125s, the 158s are unpleasant. I don't want to erode the cylinder or frame. Am I correct in assuming that a slower powder is going to give more desirable results?

 

[Rule3]

Thanks to all who have and are responding. I appreciate the input. I don't plan to feed it a steady diet of these things- just enought to maintain proficiency. I have shot several factory boxes of .357, 158 grain JHPs without a problem. So length isn't an issue. I'm a revolver guy and the J is light enough to carry all of the time. I have friends who have had less than satisfactory results on bad guys with hyper velocity, light hollowpoints. So I just want to learn from their experience. It is tolerable to shoot with 125s, the 158s are unpleasant. I don't want to erode the cylinder or frame. Am I correct in assuming that a slower powder is going to give more desirable results?

Yes a slower powder will "generally" give more velocity out of a shorter barrel.

Look up at the top of the reloading section. Notable threads and duplicating the FBI Buffalo Bore load (it is a 38 +P load)

I bought a box of the BB factory to try in my 442/642 and they were brutal. A follow up shot is not very easy. As I mentioned, in the over all scheme of things at SD distance of 10 ft, does it really matter??

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/91534-duplicating-buffalo-bore-fbi-load.html

 

[glen_farmer]

Light weight 357 revolver

Just the thought of high velocity 158 grain bullets out of a light weight revolver makes me cringe. A recent range trip with several revolvers and some 158 grain bullets being moved by 15 grains of H110 brought me to this attitude.

That load through a 6 inch 686 was just right. But that same load through a 2.25 inch Ruger SP101 was something else entirely. The velocity from the 6 inch was about 1230fps, and through the 2.25 inch about 1125fps.

The Ruger SP101 is a heavy little revolver. That load through something that weighs less would be, the word escapes me.

 

[358156hp]

Wow, some of these heavier loads make me flinch, just thinking about them. I too, use the 158 +P lead hollowpoint from Winchester, although I have heard excellent reports of Buffalo Bores load too. It would be pretty simple to come up with a practice load that approximates either one. I have fired 158 gr .357 Hydra-shocks through my 649. They were the most accurate factory load I've found yet, and worked well with oversize rubber grips. However the gun was uncontrollable with compact wooden grips after the first shot.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'd be somewhere in the neighborhood of a 140 grn bullet to 38 +p levels. I do have a 340PD & that's usually enough for me. If you already have a good supply of the bullets mentioned, maybe try them at 38 +p levels.

357 Mag Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr.

For the most part those Short Barrel Speer Magnum rounds are not much more than .38 Special +P loads. They are rated at only 990 fps which is hardly a magnum load at all. IMO they were designed to shoot in Airlite revolvers so the owner can feel good that they are shooting Magnum rounds in their magnum revolver they spent a lot of money on instead of shooting .38 Special +P rounds. Just as a comparison, the Speer short Barrel .38 Special +P load is rated for 860 fps.

I carry the Speer SB .38 Special +P load in my 15oz Airweight and the Winchester 145gr full power .357 Magnum load in my 23oz S&W M640.

 

[Treeman]

If you are going for all of the velocity possible then the "slow" powders like 2400, H110 and AA#9 remain the way to get there even in a snubby.... but they are fiercely loud and may set the drapes on fire. I have become extremely fond of 800X for my Magnum pistol loads. 800x will tread hard on the heals of the slower powders in maximum loads. If you , like me, choose to NOT go for the last scrap of velocity in .44 magnums or .357 snubbies but rather want a"mild" magnum that spits a heavy bullet out of a short barrel at 1100 or so fps you will find that 800x can achieve those velocities with less powder expense and less blast than the "magnum" powders and mild pressures. Some complain about the way it meters but plus or minus a tenth of a grain won't kill ballistic uniformity in a magnum load.

 

[Alk8944]

I'm sorry but you couldn't get me to fire a 180gr .357 Magnum round from a 12oz revolver, now how no way!

And sanity rears its' ugly head again!

 

[DEG]

I will not rely on any 357 mag load for self defense in an airlite J frame revolver. I've seen too many airlite J frames begin to pull bullets with magnum loads and jam the gun after about 3 shots. I've had it happen a few times shooting factory magnum loads from my 340PD.

 

[Forrest r]

Your absolutely correct DEG, I've seen/had the same thing happen on more than 1 ocassion.

That's why I'm a huge fan of the 44spl. Their hard hitting, have mild recoil for easy follow up shots & you don't need to stomp them full of powder to hopefully get the job done.

 

[hudsonvalley]

May I just say this....ouch

 

[chief38]

I have a firm belief that the 2" J frames are .38 Special +P ONLY, regardless of what they are actually chambered for. Recoil, second shot recovery, loss of velocity out of a 2" bbl; uncontrollabillity, etc. are the reasons not to shoot .357's in a J Frame. Believe me, you won't practice much shooting .357's out of a J Frame!

The smallest package that makes sense to me for .357's is a K Frame M65 3" bbl. (or M66 2 3/4" bbl). At least the bbl. is 50% longer, weight is almost double, and you can control the revolver. A second shot is achievable relatively quickly and some of the advantages of a .357 Magnum are achieved from the longer tube.

IMHO (arguably I suppose) the BEST round you could carry in a J Frame is the Buffalo Bore "Heavy" 158 grain +P LSWCHP-GC which will do an honest 1025 - 1040 fps and supply 360 - 370 foot pounds of energy out of a 2" bbl. Quite honestly, a .357 with all its fire and fury won't give much more if any out out of the 2" snub bbl.

JMHO of course.......

Chief38

 

[pete950]

I think I'll put my 2 cents in, Shot Placement......Why beat your self up with a hard kicking round. a standard or +p wadcutter, SWC or SWCHP will get the job done if you do yours.