JELLY BRYCE'S BERNS-MARTIN HOLSTER

[crazyphil]

There has been quite a bit of speculation about what kind of
holster Jelly Bryce used. I think he probably used several
different kinds throughout his career.

Here is another one to consider. I was reading an article in
Gun Digest July 12, 2018 by Bill Vanderpool titled FBI Handguns:
Revolvers of the past.

He quoted an FBI agent, Claude Duffey Brown, who was in
training in July 1957: "I really think this type holster was the
one used by Jelly Bryce, but can't determine - yet it had to be!"

He was referring to the Berns-Martin Universal Speed Scabbard
that an FBI instructor had recommended to him.

Picture of mine below. The gun is held in place by a spring
and breaks out of the front. Very fast.

 

[Chromedhearts]

Does anyone make a similar model today?


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[crazyphil]

Red Nichols is making the style in a shoulder holster.
Rusty Sherrick makes a replica.
By the way, the old Bianchi model 27 is very similar,
and can usually be found on ebay.

Here is a picture of my Bianchi model #27

 

[rednichols]

Unlikely Phil. Jelly is only known to have used a Myres 614; information that is in contemporaneous newspaper articles about Myres. He is pictured 'early and often' with the Myres, too.

I do own the Berns-Martin trademark; but the holsters I make and sell under that mark are not spring holsters of any kind. The original B-M 'Lightnin' inverted shoulder holster is frighteningly insecure; nothing equals the Bianchi 9R2 for retention in that configuration.

Which reminds that I've learned the source of Boothroyd's 1956 recommendations to Ian Fleming for Bond's holsters: a 1954 gunleather article by Charlie Askins that included both B-M and Threepersons. Boothroyd followed up Fleming's mixup with the Berns-Martin shoulder holster and the Walther PPK for Bond (they don't go together) by then suggesting Fleming now switch Bond to a Threepersons -- still for a revolver! Fleming, in very poor health, returned a very curt reply on that one.

 

[P.44]

There are still Front Break Holsters out
Front Break Holsters, A. E. Nelson Leather Co.

...and I once had a similar hat like Phil...The hole on the tip...
Naah, not out of a gun- fight, only from friendly lifting my hat
(and always gripping it at the exactly same place)

P.44

 

[crazyphil]

There are still Front Break Holsters out
Front Break Holsters, A. E. Nelson Leather Co.

...and I once had a similar hat like Phil...The hole on the tip...
Naah, not out of a gun- fight, only from friendly lifting my hat
(and always gripping it at the exactly same place)

P.44

I think the condition of my hat is strictly from old age. It was a
27th birthday gift from my wife and daughter. I'm 84 now, so
it's been around the block a few times.

 

[crazyphil]

Unlikely Phil. Jelly is only known to have used a Myres 614; information that is in contemporaneous newspaper articles about Myres. He is pictured 'early and often' with the Myres, too.

I do own the Berns-Martin trademark; but the holsters I make and sell under that mark are not spring holsters of any kind. The original B-M 'Lightnin' inverted shoulder holster is frighteningly insecure; nothing equals the Bianchi 9R2 for retention in that configuration.

Which reminds that I've learned the source of Boothroyd's 1956 recommendations to Ian Fleming for Bond's holsters: a 1954 gunleather article by Charlie Askins that included both B-M and Threepersons. Boothroyd followed up Fleming's mixup with the Berns-Martin shoulder holster and the Walther PPK for Bond (they don't go together) by then suggesting Fleming now switch Bond to a Threepersons -- still for a revolver! Fleming, in very poor health, returned a very curt reply on that one.

I am quite certain, as are you, that Jelly Bryce had and used
a Myres model 614 Tom Threepersons holster. However, it is
impossible for me to believe that he spent a career as perhaps
the quickest pistolero that ever carried a gun, and only used one
style of holster. We may never know for sure, but I am quite
convinced that he designed the Crump FBI holster with the
flap covering the trigger guard, and would have at least tried
it by using it. I can also believe that he probably tried the
Berns-Martin Universal. And probably a Heiser or two and a
few more Myres. I wonder if there is any information available
about the disposition of his guns and accessories when he passed
away?

 

[smokey04]

I'm lucky to have a matched pair of Berns-Martins [left and right]for 4" N frames.
Again ,Red Nichols is dead on saying the Berns-Martin Lightin' inverted holsters were frighteningly insecure. The springs were too soft and the leather at the front bottom corner wore through very quickly from drawing the piece' The Bianchi 9R2 was much superior. I think Red had a very big hand in that design. Nick

 

[ddixie884]

Bianchi 9R2 question

Unlikely Phil. Jelly is only known to have used a Myres 614; information that is in contemporaneous newspaper articles about Myres. He is pictured 'early and often' with the Myres, too.

I do own the Berns-Martin trademark; but the holsters I make and sell under that mark are not spring holsters of any kind. The original B-M 'Lightnin' inverted shoulder holster is frighteningly insecure; nothing equals the Bianchi 9R2 for retention in that configuration.

Which reminds that I've learned the source of Boothroyd's 1956 recommendations to Ian Fleming for Bond's holsters: a 1954 gunleather article by Charlie Askins that included both B-M and Threepersons. Boothroyd followed up Fleming's mixup with the Berns-Martin shoulder holster and the Walther PPK for Bond (they don't go together) by then suggesting Fleming now switch Bond to a Threepersons -- still for a revolver! Fleming, in very poor health, returned a very curt reply on that one.

Please pardon the thread drift, but is anyone making a good approximation of the 9R2 in today's market. THANX....

 

[rednichols]

Please pardon the thread drift, but is anyone making a good approximation of the 9R2 in today's market. THANX....

There is a maker who builds a copy of the prior model called simply the 9R; but not of the 9R2. I'm uncertain of his name. The springs are quite different between the two models because the latter design's spring tips arc up into that hammer shield; and for the K frame also around the adjustable rear sight.

the original (well, second gen because this one has the barrel support)

the 9R2 (the design was produced as the 9R, as the 9R1, as the 9R2, and there is even a 9R3).

The challenge for re-launching the 9R2 is neither leather nor its original maker objecting: it's the capital that would have to be tied up in buying a batch of the springs. The unit price is prohibitive in small lots (because they're bent in a machine process, then 'normalized' after bending, then often coated/plated against rusting) and the lot size to get the unit price to a reasonable level to sell the holster is quite high.

And don't get me started on how the 'plating' process can cause the springs to crack inside their tightest bend and then break in use! Called 'hydrogen embrittlement'. The things one learns working inside a high volume holster maker.

Which goes to another post I made this week, that consumers pay what it's worth to them and not in proportion to what it costs the maker. Would someone pay $500 for a new one; sure. Would two someone's? Likely not .

 

[crazyphil]

Your best bet would probably be to watch the auction sites for the 9R2
and/or put an ad here in the Wanted to Buy area. I have had good luck
with both.

 

[Naphtali]

I'll furnish a "qualified" perhaps.

While having been discontinued a generation ago, Bianchi (as usual I really mean Red Nichols) offered a mechanical marvel, the 92R, available if you look for $75-150. It was designed for S&W "K" frame 357 Magnun 2.5-inch barrel revolver.

It is completely ambidextrous - shoulder holster and belt holster, left- and right-handed users. As shoulder holster, it holds revolver butt to the rear as an upside down break front (watch "Bullitt" to view a cheap early non-Bianchi rendition). It is physically impossible for revolver to be removed or to fallout accidentally from this shoulder holster. It also needs no, nor is furnished with, safety strap. As the belt holster of which you queried, holster becomes a break front strong side holster.

Now for the cherry atop the banana split. This holster holds revolvers other than for what it was designed. I used precisely the same test that Red Nichols used when I verified Ruger SP101 3-inch barrel revolver fits perfectly. Extrapolating from my finding, probably Colt "D" frame 3-inch barrel, Charter arms 44- and 45-caliber revolvers will also fit so long as barrels are not longer than - say - 3.25 inches.

Hope this helps.

Does anyone make a similar model today?


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[ISCS Yoda]

Fascinating discussion. I have an OWB J-frame holster that opens at the front like that. Currently in storage, I do think I still have it post-fire, so I'll come back to this when I get my hands on it again.

 

[rednichols]

I'll furnish a "qualified" perhaps.

While having been discontinued a generation ago, Bianchi (as usual I really mean Red Nichols) offered a mechanical marvel, the 92R, available if you look for $75-150. It was designed for S&W "K" frame 357 Magnun 2.5-inch barrel revolver.

It is completely ambidextrous - shoulder holster and belt holster, left- and right-handed users. As shoulder holster, it holds revolver butt to the rear as an upside down break front (watch "Bullitt" to view a cheap early non-Bianchi rendition). It is physically impossible for revolver to be removed or to fallout accidentally from this shoulder holster. It also needs no, nor is furnished with, safety strap. As the belt holster of which you queried, holster becomes a break front strong side holster.

Now for the cherry atop the banana split. This holster holds revolvers other than for what it was designed. I used precisely the same test that Red Nichols used when I verified Ruger SP101 3-inch barrel revolver fits perfectly. Extrapolating from my finding, probably Colt "D" frame 3-inch barrel, Charter arms 44- and 45-caliber revolvers will also fit so long as barrels are not longer than - say - 3.25 inches.

Hope this helps.

I carried a Bulldog 44 in 3" in my own 9R2; in fact the 3" Colt D frame holster was actually molded around the Bulldog because it 'ticked all the boxes' for the job to then suit the Colt and even the Smith J frame in that barrel length. Look inside any of these holsters to see the cylinder latch impression; the three brands are easily distinguished from each other. I loved that little Bulldog and had some impressive ammo for it, too.

 

[Texas Star]

Unlikely Phil. Jelly is only known to have used a Myres 614; information that is in contemporaneous newspaper articles about Myres. He is pictured 'early and often' with the Myres, too.

I do own the Berns-Martin trademark; but the holsters I make and sell under that mark are not spring holsters of any kind. The original B-M 'Lightnin' inverted shoulder holster is frighteningly insecure; nothing equals the Bianchi 9R2 for retention in that configuration.

Which reminds that I've learned the source of Boothroyd's 1956 recommendations to Ian Fleming for Bond's holsters: a 1954 gunleather article by Charlie Askins that included both B-M and Threepersons. Boothroyd followed up Fleming's mixup with the Berns-Martin shoulder holster and the Walther PPK for Bond (they don't go together) by then suggesting Fleming now switch Bond to a Threepersons -- still for a revolver! Fleming, in very poor health, returned a very curt reply on that one.

Have you got a copy of that letter? I'd be very interested in reading it.

Boothroyd was very knowledgeable, unlike Fleming. BTW, Fleming owned about 5-6 handguns. I think Boothroyd had over a hundred, many being valuable collectors pieces.

You probably know that he loaned the S&W .38 that artist Richard Chopping painted for the hardback cover of, From Russia, With Love, if I recall the title right.

I've a letter from Boothroyd that I've saved since I got it in 1963. He was more revolver oriented than Fleming, who liked small autos largely because he thought they concealed better, a key quality for a gun that Bond would carry.

I favored an inside waistband holster for Bond, probably made by Chic Gaylord. Had he worn a Threepersos style, I think it should be a modified version with a thumb break retention strap. Gaylord made those. But the gun would be harder to conceal and could be detected in a bump frisk, maybe by one of the villain's delectable girlfriends.

IF Boothroyd suggested a Threepersons for Bond's PPK, autoloader versions were certainly made. I think Bianchi called theirs the Model 19.

I seriously doubt that Bryce wore a Berns-Martin. Too bulky under a coat and too "mechanical."

Askins, whom I knew slightly, did at times wear a Berns-Martin, but not as a concealment holster suitable for an FBI agent, which Bryce was. My bet is that Bryce wore Myres-made Threepersons type holsters or similar Heisers. Or, both.

 

[rednichols]

Have you got a copy of that letter? I'd be very interested in reading it.

Boothroyd was very knowledgeable, unlike Fleming. BTW, Fleming owned about 5-6 handguns. I think Boothroyd had over a hundred, many being valuable collectors pieces.

You probably know that he loaned the S&W .38 that artist Richard Chopping painted for the hardback cover of, From Russia, With Love, if I recall the title right.

I've a letter from Boothroyd that I've saved since I got it in 1963. He was more revolver oriented than Fleming, who liked small autos largely because he thought they concealed better, a key quality for a gun that Bond would carry.

I favored an inside waistband holster for Bond, probably made by Chic Gaylord. Had he worn a Threepersos style, I think it should be a modified version with a thumb break retention strap. Gaylord made those. But the gun would be harder to conceal and could be detected in a bump frisk, maybe by one of the villain's delectable girlfriends.

IF Boothroyd suggested a Threepersons for Bond's PPK, autoloader versions were certainly made. I think Bianchi called theirs the Model 19.

I seriously doubt that Bryce wore a Berns-Martin. Too bulky under a coat and too "mechanical."

Askins, whom I knew slightly, did at times wear a Berns-Martin, but not as a concealment holster suitable for an FBI agent, which Bryce was. My bet is that Bryce wore Myres-made Threepersons type holsters or similar Heisers. Or, both.

Yes, Charlie Askins was quite the rascal; I knew him, too .

The letters exchanged between Fleming and Boothroyd are well known among aficionados because all are quoted in full, in several articles; including Fleming's own article for Sports Illustrated.

Except -- this final letter between the men that I discovered in Fleming's heir who published 'The Man With the Golden Typewriter', so called because Fleming bought himself one as a reward for completing the first Bond book, Casino Royale.



Oddly none of their actual letters are reproduced in this book; but rather have been quoted in full. The first of the letters (actually the second; it is Fleming's reply to Boothroyd's first) is this one and I find it quite compelling being typed on 'that' typewriter:



I'd agree that Boothroyd was more knowledgeable about pistols than Fleming. And yet it wasn't ignorance that caused Fleming to mis-assign the combination of the Walther and the Berns-Martin. In fact both the Centennial and the Walther were assigned to Bond by Fleming (as 'M') in the book; the former to be lost at the beach in Dr. No (as one does when at the beach). And the Walther was added only because it was a pistol recommended by Boothroyd for SMERSH operatives. I'd blame carelessness for the error, with Fleming's focus being on the tale itself.

On the other hand . . . Boothroyd's recommendations to Fleming came from the Askins article in a book published just a couple of yeaers prior, including Tom Threepersons. That suggests that Boothroyd was more enamoured of what he read by Askins than actually knowing himself. We discovered on another recent thread on this forum that his Berns-Martin and revolver are at the Royal Armouries in London and are owned by someone in the States (who may be reading our forums); and being prior to 1953 is then a Calhoun City model.

Yes, there were 'Threepersons' for automatics but there can't be a handful of people alive today who know that; Myres' Threepersons was a very different holster that enclosed the trigger guard itself but exposed the trigger. What aficionados CALL a Threepersons for the automatics, created by Donihoo circa 1960, is 'in name only' and rarely, even in its Bianchi iteration called the No. 2, worked as a Threepersons does; otherwise the welts would have been hard up against the dust cover of a 1911. And they were not (I built lots of them there, to the company's specs).

 

[Texas Star]

Red-

Thanks so much for taking time to post that. Yes, I'd read it. I thought you were talking about an additional source.

I'll just note that Bond DID use the Centennial Airweight on Crab Key, firing at Dr. No's dragon vehicle. This was in the book; I don't think the film showed the Centennial. Boothroyd had recommended a S&W M-27 for that role, but Fleming confused it with the Centennial.

I am amused by Fleming's question about where Bothroyd might have acquired his gun knowledge. So often, non gun people find it strange that one would read about firearms or use them a lot. They tend to be presumptuous and assume they know more than most, so why would anyone not at a gun maker or the FBI, etc. know a great deal about guns?

Fleming said in a novel that people very interested in guns probably had psychological issues and might sub gun enthusiasm for success in romance. I found it quite condescending. See, The Man With the Golden Gun for that bit and something about being able to whistle and what it infers if one can't. Rules here forbid further amplification.

Did you see the, Playboy article a few years ago about Fleming's Jamaican estate, Goldeneye? Terrific photos. He had a nice place there. One saw the desk and typewriter where he actually sat to write the Bond books. This may have been only in the USA edition.

You mentioned a "Donihoo". The late Jack Donihoo of the Ft. Worth, TX PD? I've seen some of his holsters. A very talented maker.

 

[153]

Getting back to Jelly Byrce's Holster ... I presumed he wore a suit and have been wondering how he carried a registered magnum - which is pretty heavy. What width belt did he wear? Or was he a belt and suspenders guy? It doesn't seem likely he wore the Berns Martin under a suit coat. Or did he pack a snub nose daily and just bring out the big revolver for serious use?

 

[rednichols]

Red-

Thanks so much for taking time to post that. Yes, I'd read it. I thought you were talking about an additional source.

I'll just note that Bond DID use the Centennial Airweight on Crab Key, firing at Dr. No's dragon vehicle. This was in the book; I don't think the film showed the Centennial. Boothroyd had recommended a S&W M-27 for that role, but Fleming confused it with the Centennial.

I am amused by Fleming's question about where Bothroyd might have acquired his gun knowledge. So often, non gun people find it strange that one would read about firearms or use them a lot. They tend to be presumptuous and assume they know more than most, so why would anyone not at a gun maker or the FBI, etc. know a great deal about guns?

Fleming said in a novel that people very interested in guns probably had psychological issues and might sub gun enthusiasm for success in romance. I found it quite condescending. See, The Man With the Golden Gun for that bit and something about being able to whistle and what it infers if one can't. Rules here forbid further amplification.

Did you see the, Playboy article a few years ago about Fleming's Jamaican estate, Goldeneye? Terrific photos. He had a nice place there. One saw the desk and typewriter where he actually sat to write the Bond books. This may have been only in the USA edition.

You mentioned a "Donihoo". The late Jack Donihoo of the Ft. Worth, TX PD? I've seen some of his holsters. A very talented maker.

Fleming, in his interview with Playboy, outlined his daily routine at Goldeneye; it was comprised of a little swimming, a little writing, and a lotta drinking. Combine the latter with the ciggies and it's easy to see how he could've died relatively young.

The Centennial: actually was the revolver that Boothroyd recommended for Bond. The M27 was for long range shooting and was a second revolver for Bond. The Walther was not intended for Bond. So I'd say that Fleming did not confuse the two revolvers with each other: the Centennial was the correct revolver for the shoulder holster.

Donihoo: you might be confusing him with a maker of the style in Texas, because Donihoo himself was a detective and not a maker himself. At least according to the heaps of research I have on him thanks to folks like SG-688. Instead his design was made by Safariland, by Bianchi, by Seventrees of all people, and others. I make a version that is inspired by the version made by Becknell; and yet it is no copy because it uses a separate belt loop and that loop does not extend behind it in Brill-fashion (for some very good production reasons).

Donihoo himself

Safariland's version with the double stitching

Seventrees' version; an early article about Paris explicitly calls this out as a Donihoo

The Becknell, revealed to us all on this forum originally

Wally Wolfram's version.

Bianchi's version is the best known of all; he credits himself, though, with thinking of it.

 

[rednichols]

Getting back to Jelly Byrce's Holster ... I presumed he wore a suit and have been wondering how he carried a registered magnum - which is pretty heavy. What width belt did he wear? Or was he a belt and suspenders guy? It doesn't seem likely he wore the Berns Martin under a suit coat. Or did he pack a snub nose daily and just bring out the big revolver for serious use?

Several images of Jelly Bryce suggest he had just the one revolver, and carried it in a Myres 614 on a narrow belt; substantiated by contemporaneous newspaper articles.





So far there is no evidence that Jelly had a B-M speed holster. His mate Jerry Campbell definitely had more than one revolver in both K and N frame, and more than one holster in Myres, Brill, and Lewis flavors; but no B-M. There is an album on the forum that shows all his guns, and with permission these images were reproduced in Holstory. Their big gold revolvers appear to have been a 'pigeon pair' of Wolf & Klar 38/44s; the location of Jelly's not yet known.