JHP 115 gr 9mm wide variety in cost

[Comrad]

My quest and continuing education for reliable inexpensive ammo continues. Part target needs and part stockpiling.

I picked up some Hornaday Critical Defense at about $25.00 for a box of 25 based on recommendations for defense but too expensive for target shooting.

Today I found Independence 9mm 115 gr JHP for $14.99 for a box of 50. Haven't fired any yet and can't find anyone giving it a bad review online.

So why the huge price difference? It's almost cheap enough to use at the range.

It's made in Israel and I have to believe they know a thing or two about self defense.

It's imported by Federal but also marked "Not for Law Enforcement Use". Is that because it's only 115 gr? Or are they saying it's not reliable?

 

[Nevada Ed]

Not for LE use............means

1. target type bullet
2. low fps
3. may not eject/feed
4. not a proven street stopper.
all of the above and maybe more................

 

[murphydog]

A few other possibilities are - a regulation (either from Israel or here) stating it had to marked as such to sell outside of LE channels; overrun from an LE contract but not shipped to them; past its storage/"expiration" date for whatever agency had it.

In any case, if they function well in your 9 mm I wouldn't worry too much about the labeling.

 

[Comrad]

I'm wondering if ammo is like buying an HDMI cable for your TV, you can spend $10.00 or you can spend $100.00 and in reality there is no difference.

 

[Arik]

Not for LE use............means

1. target type bullet
2. low fps
3. may not eject/feed
4. not a proven street stopper.
all of the above and maybe more................

This. Just cause it has a JHP doesn't mean it's actually going to act like a JHP.

Independence is IMI (Israeli Military Industry) repackaged and made here. It's ok ammo. It shoots and works fine but their JHP don't live up to what a JHP is. May as well be FMJ

 

[Arik]

I'm wondering if ammo is like buying an HDMI cable for your TV, you can spend $10.00 or you can spend $100.00 and in reality there is no difference.

No there is a difference. Look up performance of say PPU JHP and Gold Dot HP. One may expend a little the other has been proven to fully expand and retain it's mass with no jacket separation.

 

[smokindog]

Remington JHP at Walmart, $26 per 100

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxTaz-RlDOU[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk3SKchge_k[/ame]

My quest and continuing education for reliable inexpensive ammo continues. Part target needs and part stockpiling.

I picked up some Hornaday Critical Defense at about $25.00 for a box of 25 based on recommendations for defense but too expensive for target shooting.

Today I found Independence 9mm 115 gr JHP for $14.99 for a box of 50. Haven't fired any yet and can't find anyone giving it a bad review online.

So why the huge price difference? It's almost cheap enough to use at the range.

It's made in Israel and I have to believe they know a thing or two about self defense.

It's imported by Federal but also marked "Not for Law Enforcement Use". Is that because it's only 115 gr? Or are they saying it's not reliable?

 

[hoc9sw]

The Remington UMC 100 round box of 115g JHP is now up to just under $30. Went up a couple of weeks before Christmas (at WalMart) with all the other R UMC packaging (as well as Federal Red box packs), from $1 - $5 per carton. I suspect it is a bit toward +P, as it shoots a lot hotter than other 115g FMJ choices.

That has been my go-to choice for a couple of years.I liked the idea of not having to unload / reload mags coming from the HD box to go to the range.

But it is still a decent choice for bulk unless you are adept at finding on-line deals.

(Add -
I don't use this for CC ammo, but for go-bag and extra mags at home. It would cover the potential preference for JHP if I were to have to grab the bag and run. Also, a couple of ranges in my area want you to use JHP. Never understood why, but it is their range, their rules)

 

[Gamecock]

Business 101: balance margins and volume.

They charge what they can and still maintain acceptable volume.

Reloaders know that ammo charges for "self defense" ammo is outrageous. Call it SD, and charge 3X. People will pay it.

 

[Arik]

Business 101: balance margins and volume.

They charge what they can and still maintain acceptable volume.

Reloaders know that ammo charges for "self defense" ammo is outrageous. Call it SD, and charge 3X. People will pay it.

So reloaders are capable of actually making the bullet as opposed to just loading it into a cartridge? I'm guessing reloaders also know how to make a +P round and still have it penetrate over 12 inches and fully expand. ...all from a snub nose revolver?

 

[petepeterson]

You can get 115 JHP Federal Hi-Shok and gov't contract ammo online for $16 or so a box.

 

[smokindog]

Not here, it went up and almost immediately went right back down. The 40, 45, and 38 stayed at the new price. FWIW,the Federal 100 packs have gone back to sub $25 too!

The Remington UMC 100 round box of 115g JHP is now up to just under $30. Went up a couple of weeks before Christmas (at WalMart) with all the other R UMC packaging (as well as Federal Red box packs), from $1 - $5 per carton. I suspect it is a bit toward +P, as it shoots a lot hotter than other 115g FMJ choices.

That has been my go-to choice for a couple of years.I liked the idea of not having to unload / reload mags coming from the HD box to go to the range.

But it is still a decent choice for bulk unless you are adept at finding on-line deals.

(Add -
I don't use this for CC ammo, but for go-bag and extra mags at home. It would cover the potential preference for JHP if I were to have to grab the bag and run. Also, a couple of ranges in my area want you to use JHP. Never understood why, but it is their range, their rules)

 

[Gamecock]

So reloaders are capable of actually making the bullet as opposed to just loading it into a cartridge? I'm guessing reloaders also know how to make a +P round and still have it penetrate over 12 inches and fully expand. ...all from a snub nose revolver?

Reloaders know the cost of components. "SD" components cost the same as ball, yet loaded ammo is 3X.

SELF DEFENSE PISTOL AMMO IS A BILLION DOLLAR RIPOFF

 

[Comrad]

Reloaders know the cost of components. "SD" components cost the same as ball, yet loaded ammo is 3X.

SELF DEFENSE PISTOL AMMO IS A BILLION DOLLAR RIPOFF

That's what caused me to start this thread. Does it matter if the fps is 1026 or 1071? Does it matter if the jacket starts to separate after it's penetrated the bad guy? Does it matter that the less expensive stuff doesn't mushroom beautifully and expands .044 instead of .045 if the bad guy is down?
Just trying to understand.

 

[hoc9sw]

Not here, it went up and almost immediately went right back down. The 40, 45, and 38 stayed at the new price. FWIW,the Federal 100 packs have gone back to sub $25 too!

Interesting. I was at a DFW WM this weekend, 9mm was still tagged $29.97. Federal still at the new (higher) price as well. Maybe they have different regional pricing in your area.

Wish it would go back down, but as they sell it all, they may be liking that extra profit.

 

[shawn mccarver]

It's imported by Federal but also marked "Not for Law Enforcement Use". Is that because it's only 115 gr? Or are they saying it's not reliable?

I do not know why that particular brand is marked as it is, but please take their word for it. If it is not suitable for LE use, then buy it only for range use.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Does it matter if.........

Some bullet will work at 1026 fps ........
My slowest accurate 115gr FMJ is at 984 fps out of my 3.5" pistol.

Jacket separation reduces mass, which reduces penetration but
the Remington GS has been shown with starting separation and still pass gel test.

Mushroom can be minimal causing total pass through or even Massive, receiving too much friction and not penetrating enough. One reason that SD ammo is test quite heavily to perform to its top levels out of many styles of weapons.

Just a matter of selection for the type of shooting you will be doing.

 

[Whitwabit]

ones a JHP and one is a FMJ .. knowing the difference is important if using a firearm for self defense ..

 

[smokindog]

They will vary at times, I saw the prices at 1171/35E and the one at 407/2499. Both draw from teh same Disti I believe. I may be near 377 and 114 tomorrow and will check if I am. That one draws off a different disti.

Interesting. I was at a DFW WM this weekend, 9mm was still tagged $29.97. Federal still at the new (higher) price as well. Maybe they have different regional pricing in your area.

Wish it would go back down, but as they sell it all, they may be liking that extra profit.

 

[Arik]

That's what caused me to start this thread. Does it matter if the fps is 1026 or 1071? Does it matter if the jacket starts to separate after it's penetrated the bad guy? Does it matter that the less expensive stuff doesn't mushroom beautifully and expands .044 instead of .045 if the bad guy is down?
Just trying to understand.

The fps does make a difference. Barrel length and fps will determine expansion. Jacket separation does make a difference. You want the bullet to stay together to retain it's mass for optimal penetration. So does expansion. Otherwise it becomes similar to a FMJ. Of course every situation is different and no two people will react to the same thing the same way. But, for instance fmj handgun ammo has proven to not be very effective, at least not AS effective. Look at the permanent cavity left by a HP vs FMJ. And no there isn't a difference between 0.44 and 0.45 but that's not how it works. The bullet either has consistent full expansion or it doesn't