John Locke

[redlevel]

John Locke was one of the most influential thinkers our Founding Fathers relied upon when establishing our Republic. Wonder what Locke and the Founders would think about the rampant lawlessness in our cities today, and the city governments allowing it to happen?

“The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom.”
John Locke



Someone needs to remind the various mayors and city councils of this concept.

“Government has no other end, but the preservation of property.”
John Locke

 

[Jon651]

John Locke was one of the most influential thinkers our Founding Fathers relied upon when establishing our Republic. Wonder what Locke and the Founders would think about the rampant lawlessness in our cities today, and the city governments allowing it to happen?

“The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom.”
John Locke

Someone needs to remind the various mayors and city councils of this concept.

“Government has no other end, but the preservation of property.”
John Locke

Please try to remember that our country was founded on a revolution, a revolt against the standing law and those who would impose it upon us. Everything we did during the Revolutionary War... WAS AGAINST THE LAW!

 

[redlevel]

Please try to remember that our country was founded on a revolution, a revolt against the standing law and those who would impose it upon us. Everything we did during the Revolutionary War... WAS AGAINST THE LAW!

Locke, of course, was the inspiration for the most famous revolutionary document in history, the Declaration of Independence.

Our revolution wasn’t one of looting and random acts of violence.

 

[Univibe]

Read Locke; but if you really want to get the chills, read Hobbes and Machiavelli.

 

[oink]

I think I know what George Washington would do if the Whiskey Rebellion is any example.

 

[Jon651]

Locke, of course, was the inspiration for the most famous revolutionary document in history, the Declaration of Independence.

Our revolution wasn’t one of looting and random acts of violence.

Ask the British that question in the mid-1770s and you might get a different answer. You don't think there were protests, demonstrations, and yes even looting leading up to our independence? Even John Adams defended British troops in court who killed and wounded people after they were set upon by angry mobs. Does the Boston Tea Party even ring a bell? There was no civilized nation who didn't think of us as the Bad Guys, lawbreakers and scoundrels.

Have we so forgotten the lessons of our own history?

 

[redlevel]

Ask the British that question in the mid-1770s and you might get a different answer. You don't think there were protests, demonstrations, and yes even looting leading up to our independence? Even John Adams defended British troops in court who killed and wounded people after they were set upon by angry mobs. Does the Boston Tea Party even ring a bell? There was no civilized nation who didn't think of us as the Bad Guys, lawbreakers and scoundrels.

Have we so forgotten the lessons of our own history?

The Boston Tea Party wasn’t random looting. It was a symbolic act, specifically protesting a tax imposed by the British. However, if you want to compare it to looting flat screen televisions and burning down Targets, Autozones, and Walmart’s, just go right ahead.

No civilized nations saw us as the good guys? You ever hear of Count Pulaski? Baron von Steuben? Lafayette? Admiral de Grasse?

Are you seriously comparing what is going on today with our Revolution?

If the rioters limited their attacks to police stations, courthouses, municipal buildings, etc., then I would say you have a point.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

There is a lot going on and a lot of different agenda's being acted out by different factions. The original protest, people who have been isolated too long, racial supremacists trying to make the original protesters looking bad, professional thugs trying to make everyone look bad, people looking to take advantage of the situation, and no doubt others that I can't even guess at. All I know is that I do not understand the "stand down" approach of local authorities.

 

[Jon651]

The Boston Tea Party wasn’t random looting. It was a symbolic act, specifically protesting a tax imposed by the British. However, if you want to compare it to looting flat screen televisions and burning down Targets, Autozones, and Walmart’s, just go right ahead.

No civilized nations saw us as the good guys? You ever hear of Count Pulaski? Baron von Steuben? Lafayette? Admiral de Grasse?

Are you seriously comparing what is going on today with our Revolution?

If the rioters limited their attacks to police stations, courthouses, municipal buildings, etc., then I would say you have a point.

Don't conflate my trying to get us to accurately remember our own history with support for what is going on today. That's just silly talk. From more than one perspective we were not the noble opposition arguing for our beliefs in civilized debate. Au contraire.

The Boston Tea Party was a symbolic act - from our perspective. The British had something a little bit different to say about it. It also wasn't the only thing like that done, and not all the "colonists" at the time supported what was going on. Just because it was made famous on Schoolhouse Rock or some such kiddie cartoon doesn't mean it was the ONLY thing that occured.

All those people that you mentioned were just that - individual people, not the nations that they came from. Even the French had to be convinced, wheedled, bribed and flattered into finally supporting us - and they really only agreed because they wanted to stick it to the British more so than support the peasants and the masses in throwing off the yoke of a king. That certainly didn't work out well for them in the long haul.

My point is thus: Much of the change that occurs may start out unpleasantly, illegally, and sometimes violently, regardless of how we choose to remember it nearly two-and-a-half centuries later. The trick is to remember it ALL and not just the noble, feel-good nuggets.

 

[bill2000]

John Locke was one of the most influential thinkers our Founding Fathers relied upon when establishing our Republic. Wonder what Locke and the Founders would think about the rampant lawlessness in our cities today, and the city governments allowing it to happen?

“The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom.”
John Locke



Someone needs to remind the various mayors and city councils of this concept.

“Government has no other end, but the preservation of property.”
John Locke

You assume that the various mayors and city councils have any interest in preserving or promoting freedom. That is a very dangerous assumption.

 

[Doug627]

"It's 2020 not 1775." This is the argument of the liberal anti-gunners.

 

[American1776]

I make sure to teach 'Second Treatise on Government' in all of my philosophy courses. Especially chapter 19.

One thing that gets lost in all this modern society: A society based on the Natural Rights and Social Contract theory of Locke and the Founders requires, in equal measure to limited government, a virtuous citizenry.

People today seem to want the freedom part while forgetting the other side of the equation: virtue, both individual and collective, as expressed and re-enforced through non-governmental institutions, and a sense of E pluribus unum.

 

[Absalom]

A violent minority of Antifa and criminal looters are drawing all the attention and the media coverage, but most people who are actually protesting about Floyd’s death are peaceful.

In the Revolution, especially the years before Lexington and Concord, the Sons of Liberty and other more spontaneous anti-royalist mobs certainly engaged in more than symbolic acts of violence against not just royalist officials, but also suspected loyalists. Meanwhile, the actual Founding Fathers, the ones who’d heard of John Locke, were sitting peacefully in meetings, debating political action, writing appeals, and sipping wine.

Both were part of the Revolution.

But if you want to apply John Locke to the present situation, the looters and largely non-ethnic antifa rioters aren’t the issue anyways; that’s a police problem, and it is being dealt with, more or less effectively.

Regarding John Locke’s arguments, recurring incidents like the Floyd death and ensuing protests point to something more important: what should worry us is that there is a large part of the population who, like the colonists before 1776, feel that they are not treated right by the system that is supposed to represent them just like all others. The patriots felt treated unequally as free Englishmen, nowadays others feel the same way as free Americans.

I’m fairly certain from all the comments and threads on the topic that most folks here are NOT part of that population. There seems to be more of a general frustration that the Redcoats (nowadays they wear blue) don’t just slap them back into line.

That didn’t work out so well in the past.

 

[delcrossv]

.....

“The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom.”...
John Locke

Another good question is how many of the laws and regulations presently in place preserve and enlarge freedom rather than abolish and restrain. Seems like there's been a real shift to the latter in the 20th Century.

 

[Jon651]

Another good question is how many of the laws and regulations presently in place preserve and enlarge freedom rather than abolish and restrain. Seems like there's been a real shift to the latter in the 20th Century.

An excellent point! To which I would add this question: How many of our laws have also been fairly and equally applied to all members of our society?