K-22 Outdoorsman Front Sight

[Fullmetaljacket]

I have a first year (I think) Outdoorsman, #639,370. From the reading I have done including a recent thread here, the original front sight design featured a gold bead but was quickly revised to a silver (stainless?) bead. Mine has no bead at all, just a plain Patridge blade. I cannot see any evidence that the blade was replaced later but I suppose it's possible. Could this be a special order item? I have not lettered the gun, I guess that would be the definitive answer.
The rear sight has the correct single elevation screw.
The magnas in the pics are a replacement for range days, $35 at the local antique emporium. The originals are numbered to the gun and perfect so I elected to keep them that way.

 

[DARE]

Another thread on an early K-22 Outdoorsman is running. You should read it.
Gary Lowe gave these dates.
January 1931 Order to furnish Call gold bead front sight.
September 16,1931 Order to furnish stainless steel bead.
November 10. 1931 Order to furnish 2 screw rear sight.

As I understand things, if you have the 1 screw sight your gun is a 1st year gun. My guess is your front sight was special ordered.

The experts should be along shortly with better info.

 

[quietman123]

Beautiful gun. Mine is serial #634xxx and has the gold bead. I wonder what is the starting number. I have the correct box for mine.

 

[PeteC]

Beautiful gun. Mine is serial #634xxx and has the gold bead. I wonder what is the starting number. I have the correct box for mine.

632124, and through about 682419, according to the SCSW.
Numbered in the same series as the M&P 1905 4th change. 19,100 made from 1931 to 1940.
They accounted for about 38% of those serial numbers.

 

[walter o]

my OUTDOORSMAN S/N 656715 appears to have a factory IVORY front sight & a 2 adjusting screw rear sight. Think it dates to1936

 

[PeteC]

I wonder how many factory sight/bead/disc combinations there are for this gun? Not to mention Kings sights and whatnot!

 

[Nightowl]

I have 638947 shipped in January 1932, with a gold bead front sight and the one screw rear sight. Perhaps one of the last in that configuration before the stainless bead and two screw rear sight.

 

[47knuckle]

A couple more data points.
I have 638853 with a 1 screw rear sight and a plain (no insert) front sight.
I also have 654902 with a 2 screw rear sight with a stainless insert front sight.

 

[glowe]

The standard Patridge front sight was being used by the factory for all target revolvers throughout the 1930s. The 32-20 and 38 Special K frame targets mostly used the Patridge front sight without beads. If buyer wanted plain front sights on their 22 Outdoorsman's revolver, I am sure the factory obliged. A letter could identify these guns if the original invoices were located. Most 22 OD's would have had the gold or stainless front sights, unless ordered with something else. No value adder would be expected for such a change. In addition, sights were available for sale and could have been replaced by anyone with a small punch of the proper size.

Let me add that it is likely your 639,370 did not ship in 1931, rather in 1932. Problem is that these guns were not big sellers and the database shows them shipping almost totally without serial number order and some early manufactured guns did not ship for over a year. With roughly 17,000 made over a 9 year period, average of less than 2,000 guns were sold each year.

 

[rct269]

As Gary (glowe) noted, the plain Patridge sight was the standard throughout the 1930's. Actually it got a flying start, being the standard starting in 1923---and then couldn't quit until 1942!

As far as yours goes, yes, special order; although I don't know that anything was so special about it because it's my admittedly dim recollection you could have any front sight available on any target model just by asking. And having asked, it would be child's play to swap out one front sight for another----admittedly an extra step in the normal process of filling an order, but no big deal.

This tale isn't exactly on point, but it's close enough: I had a .38 S.A. 3rd (Model of '91) Target------with an unnumbered latch----which had my knickers in a knot! Jinks explained the unnumbered latch thus: Having received an order for this gun, and having none in stock, they simply took a fixed sight gun from inventory to the Service Department, and had them convert it to Target----swap out the sights. The Service Department folks work on one gun at a time (therefore having NO parts on their bench from any other gun)--and therefore having no need to spend any time numbering any replacement parts.

Done and done!

Ralph Tremaine

I just thought of something that will answer any of your questions about your sight----when and where did it come from(?).

Any part fit to a frame is numbered. Any part fit to a part fit to a frame is also numbered---and that includes front sights on target guns. If you don't already have one, get a cup tip punch (.040"----from Brownells---a short one) and pop off your front sight blade. If it's numbered to your gun, it was born that way----otherwise it's otherwise!

And yet another afterthought: If the sight was a "special order", I'll bet you the price of the letter (which you will have already paid---so you don't have to pay it again to me if turns out what I say is so) the letter won't say one word about the front sight being a special order---and that's because it's HIGHLY unlikely the factory records from which a letter cometh will say anything about the sight----------'cause it didn't cost anything extra.(!!) That is, of course, unless you prompt them to say something about the sight so you can end up with a freebie letter!! And why not?!! It'll likely be Christmas when the letter shows up, so you'd be entitled to an extra present!

 

[PeteC]

These are from a K-22 Outdoorsman s/n 6388xx I posted recently. (I don't have a letter or ship date). Patridge front sight stainless bead and single cross pin. Single rear sight elevation screw with no second set screw.

I wonder if someone could post a pic of the gold bead front sight for comparison?

 

[rct269]

"---------------with no second set screw."

A common misconception-------it ain't a set screw.

It's one of the TWO screws used to alter elevation settings---AND to LOCK the sights---------the "two screw" sight being the very first from S&W that won't "shoot loose"--after only about 50 years of trying---not that "shooting loose" is a big concern with .22's. That said, don't lose sight of the fact the "two screw" sight was that used on the first 357 Magnums.

Works like so: Make the initial elevation setting with the aft screw (get close). Make the final elevation setting with the "set screw". Now turn the aft screw counterclockwise as far as it will go. You're done. The sight is set AND locked---absolutely LOCKED! The how and why is the "set screw" is pressing against the frame----the aft screw is pulling against the frame (by way of its flange nut riding in a slot milled in the frame). As an aside, one full turn of a sight adjusting screw alters point of impact by 1" for each 10 yards of range---as in INFINITELY adjustable---THE best sight S&W ever made!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[hkcavalier]

There were definitely special orders early on. Mine shipped 9/8/31 with a Marble bead from the factory.

 

[glowe]

These are from a K-22 Outdoorsman s/n 6388xx I posted recently. (I don't have a letter or ship date). Patridge front sight stainless bead and single cross pin. Single rear sight elevation screw with no second set screw.

I wonder if someone could post a pic of the gold bead front sight for comparison?

Your picture looks more gold than stainless?

 

[paplinker]

Any part fit to a frame is numbered. Any part fit to a part fit to a frame is also numbered---and that includes front sights on target guns. If you don't already have one, get a cup tip punch (.040"----from Brownells---a short one) and pop off your front sight blade. If it's numbered to your gun, it was born that way----otherwise it's otherwise!

Always wanted to try to do this but worry about screwing up the pin.

I think I read the pin goes in and out in a certain direction? Was the direction standard?

 

[rct269]

Always wanted to try to do this but worry about screwing up the pin.

I think I read the pin goes in and out in a certain direction? Was the direction standard?

I flat don't remember for sure and certain since it's been so long since I fooled with one, but I'm thinking I always removed them from left to right. I'm also thinking it doesn't make any difference because I AM for sure and certain it's a straight pin. As far as screwing up a pin goes, this is a tap-tap-tap operation. There's no WHAMMITY-BAMMIN' about it---at least there never was for me----and I've checked A BUNCH of them.

 

[glowe]

I always push the pins from left to right. When removing a sight base pin, place a thin piece of softwood under the sight base and clamp the gun on a work bench using those rubber faced bar clamp. You will drive the pin into the wood, so remove it after free from the barrel. Also, use a plastic hammer to tap on the sight until it is free from the base.

 

[raljr1]

I had to look at picture of my OD because I had no idea what kind of front sight it has. Looks to be a gold bead. SN 651408 shipped in October 1935.

 

[rct269]

Now see------different strokes for different folks!

Gary speaks of clamps and such like.

Me, I fold up a bath towel---like 4-6 thicknesses. Then I set the gun on the towel, and tap-tap-tap. And I take the time to only tap-tap it far enough to release the sight blade. That way I don't have to get out my trusty magnet to retrieve the pin----and I don't have to fool with a pin holder to put it back in its hole. What it's really all about is what do you hold the teeny-tiny pin with to put it in a pin holder?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Fullmetaljacket]

Thanks for all the replies. I' not quite ready to do any tap tapping on this one just yet. Having never removed a pinned front sight blade I may need to practice on something other than this one. Maybe this is the excuse I need to pony up for a letter from Mr. Jinks.